How can God be all knowing AND all powerful?

An all knowing being would see his every action with complete certainty. An all powerful being would be capable of doing something which he himself could not foresee. But then he isn’t all powerful if he can’t even change his own destiny. Even if you take away all knowing from the equation, there are still a number of paradoxes. One of the most popular being the Omnipotence paradox e.g. could God create a dick so big his ass couldn’t take it?

So can someone explain to me again how it’s even possible to theoretically be all knowing and all powerful?

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What’s more interesting about the omnipotent and omniscient claim is that supposedly Satan, a creature created BY god, less than God, has been able to run amok on earth for thousands of years, throwing a spanner into all of God’s attempts at making life good and happy for humans.

This is the conventional Christian ideology. I don’t buy it.

IMO, God is both good and evil. Working in accord. 'Satan' just a term/figure or force used to describe the left hand of God. It’s like man woman, day night. Etc. Life needs two forces opposed to each other, working together, in order for Life itself to function.

Alternatively, there’s the early Gnostic belief, (ie Jesus teachings) that the God of Eden is actually Satan. Ie. When the highest God banished Satan, his 'domain' is actually the Earth. That’s why life here is so evil, shit, and corrupt. Because Satan rules Earth. And that Jesus, in the form of the serpent, entered Eden in order to educate and enlighten the blinded humans of the true God that exists above this Earthly prison. That we as humans are trapped here and that the key to finding God was by inner enlightnment (gnosticism), that the 'kingdom of heaven' so often misinterpreted by Christians, Jesus was actually refering to the kingdom existing within all of us. That you CAN see thru the lies and delusions of this Earth, beyond the slavery of this Earthly prison and find Godliness within you, that all humans can also be the 'sons of god' - which refers to being enlighted, free, unblinded etc.

Kilroy was here

What God knows and does goes beyond human thinking.

gg: That’s not the conventional Christian belief, that’s the conventional Mormon belief.

The latter-day saints are really screwed up in their views of God and Jesus. They don’t even use the Bible in correct context.

Legends are usually bad news. There’s not a lot of difference between heroes and madmen...

Thanks Captain Falcon, for correcting that. So what’s the conventional christian belief then? I mean, dont they sort of run parralel to that mormon belief that Satan (an inferior being) is running around causing headaches to God (an all-knowing, all-powerful force)?

Kilroy was here

Somewhat along those lines.

I personally believe that Satan, as a fallen angel, does go around trying to cause all of man to sin as much as possible so that man falls out of God’s Grace. But that’s why Christ died on the cross for all of mankind’s sins, so you and I don’t have to.

I believe God loved us enough to send His son to die for us, and that someday Jesus will return to Earth to set up His eternal Kingdom. But if you want a more thorough version of my belief, read one or all of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John and see for yourself.

Also, Revlation may interest you, as it contains an account of Jesus' return to Earth and God’s judgement on Satan and sinful men who rejected Christ.

Go check those out, I’ll come back in two days to discuss it further.

Legends are usually bad news. There’s not a lot of difference between heroes and madmen...

NEREVAR117 wrote: What God knows and does goes beyond human thinking.

Maybe it’s beyond the thinking of the idiots who made up that excuse, but I want a logical answer, not some BS claiming were not smart enough.

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dont be asshole just because you have a different point of view dosent mean its true. BITCH

NEREVAR117 wrote: What God knows and does goes beyond human thinking.

Who knows, perhaps God doesnt exist beyond human thinking

Etain wrote:

Cid Highwind wrote:
Moderator record hun, ..yada yada yada ..I was talking about, dearest.

Cid - don’t call me “hun” or “dearest” thanks.

THE_PAIN wrote:

NEREVAR117 wrote: What God knows and does goes beyond human thinking.

Who knows, perhaps God doesnt exist beyond human thinking

perhaps am thinking he doesnt

hmmm well... knowledge is power... so if you know everything...

God is all knowing and powerful, how can it be a paradox? I don’t get it. Just because he doesn’t do something doesn’t mean he can’t, remember fan fell from the grace of God when Eve ate from the tree of life. After that God became more of an onlooker then anything else. As sac-religious as it is, Futurama had it right in the episode when Bender was launched into space.

“When you do things right, people aren’t sure you’ve done anything at all”

Rise of Shinra

Cid wrote: God is all knowing and powerful, how can it be a paradox? I don’t get it. Just because he doesn’t do something doesn’t mean he can’t, remember fan fell from the grace of God when Eve ate from the tree of life. After that God became more of an onlooker then anything else. As sac-religious as it is, Futurama had it right in the episode when Bender was launched into space.

well sometimes doing nothing can be as bad are whirs then doing something.

Cid wrote: “When you do things right, people aren’t sure you’ve done anything at all”

mm well there could be some truth in that i suppose.

pluto wrote:

Cid wrote: God is all knowing and powerful, how can it be a paradox? I don’t get it. Just because he doesn’t do something doesn’t mean he can’t, remember fan fell from the grace of God when Eve ate from the tree of life. After that God became more of an onlooker then anything else. As sac-religious as it is, Futurama had it right in the episode when Bender was launched into space.

well sometimes doing nothing can be as bad are whirs then doing something.

Cid wrote: “When you do things right, people aren’t sure you’ve done anything at all”

mm well there could be some truth in that i suppose.

The point is, man fell from God’s grace with Adam and Eve, after that God almost no longer cared because humankind proved themselves to be untrustworthy and undeserving of God’s attention.

Rise of Shinra

Cid wrote: God is all knowing and powerful, how can it be a paradox? I don’t get it. Just because he doesn’t do something doesn’t mean he can’t, remember fan fell from the grace of God when Eve ate from the tree of life. After that God became more of an onlooker then anything else. As sac-religious as it is, Futurama had it right in the episode when Bender was launched into space.

“When you do things right, people aren’t sure you’ve done anything at all”

Well, all knowing would imply that he knows every single thing about everything. That would include his own actions, if he is all knowing then he can see every action he will ever make with 100% certainty. Now all powerful would imply that he would be able to do anything he wants, including changing his own actions that he is certain to make. Now lets say God tries to change his own destiny. Since he is all powerful he should be able to change his actions, but by doing this it would imply that he is not all knowing because what he once foresaw was incorrect since he changed it. But if he is unable to change his future actions and his destiny remains, then it would imply that he is not all powerful since he couldn’t change his destiny. Either way you look at it, you will realize that it is impossible to be both all knowing and all powerful. Even being all powerful results in the Omnipotence paradox. Just think about it for awile and eventually you will understanding how illogical it is to be both all knowing and all powerful.

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Actually, even with your explanation it doesn’t help me understand how one can’t be all knowing and all powerful. It simply sets as this, God can indeed foresee the future, even of himself. And if he were to move to change his own future then what he sees of the future would change as well, meaning he still knows his future and he is still able to change it.

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Cid wrote: Actually, even with your explanation it doesn’t help me understand how one can’t be all knowing and all powerful. It simply sets as this, God can indeed foresee the future, even of himself. And if he were to move to change his own future then what he sees of the future would change as well, meaning he still knows his future and he is still able to change it.

See what you just explained would result in a paradox. From what I know about my studies of paradox’s, the paradox in your statement is very similar to the grandfather paradox.

Here is a link that explains the grandfather paradox. You only really need to read the first paragraph to understand it

Once you understand it I’ll explain how it applies to your statement.

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How does that apply to this?

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GOd is teh SHit So Fuck You

ramunematt wrote:

NEREVAR117 wrote: What God knows and does goes beyond human thinking.

Maybe it’s beyond the thinking of the idiots who made up that excuse, but I want a logical answer, not some BS claiming were not smart enough.

You only making up that excuse cuz you can’t give me a logical answer...