gay marriage question

some one new offline wrote:

riptorn311 wrote:

some one new wrote: Westboro Baptist Church in response to a question about whether or not they are involved with the KKK or neo-nazi group.


No. We don’t believe in physical violence of any kind, and the Scripture doesn’t support racism. God never says “thou shalt not be black." However, He does say, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Leviticus 18:22).

leviticus also tells us to stone to death disobedient children, not eat shellfish and 611 other laws...100 of those had to do with animal sacrifice, slavery was supported in the whole bible as well as supressing women...Slavery and opression sound like the works of an all powerful loving god...

We’ve had this discussion already. Leviticus is not the only book that condemns it blah, blah stay on topic please.

That is correct...it isn’t...but what example did you happen to give??...Oh yes the standby leviticus response....Stay on topic is another response for “I can’t explain why I like red lobster”...Or my kid just gets “time out” in the corner rather than a brick to the face...It’s such hypocracy that you pick and choose what to adhere to...

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

God knows the bible shouldn’t be taken literally..

“To sing when you hurt,and to sing when you cry,to sing when you live and to sing when you die”

Tell that to the fundies

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

riptorn311 wrote: Tell that to the fundies

Yeah....

“To sing when you hurt,and to sing when you cry,to sing when you live and to sing when you die”

riptorn311 wrote:

some one new offline wrote:

riptorn311 wrote:

some one new wrote: Westboro Baptist Church in response to a question about whether or not they are involved with the KKK or neo-nazi group.


No. We don’t believe in physical violence of any kind, and the Scripture doesn’t support racism. God never says “thou shalt not be black." However, He does say, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Leviticus 18:22).

leviticus also tells us to stone to death disobedient children, not eat shellfish and 611 other laws...100 of those had to do with animal sacrifice, slavery was supported in the whole bible as well as supressing women...Slavery and opression sound like the works of an all powerful loving god...

We’ve had this discussion already. Leviticus is not the only book that condemns it blah, blah stay on topic please.

That is correct...it isn’t...but what example did you happen to give??...Oh yes the standby leviticus response....Stay on topic is another response for “I can’t explain why I like red lobster”...Or my kid just gets “time out” in the corner rather than a brick to the face...It’s such hypocracy that you pick and choose what to adhere to...

I used that as an example that people who oppose same sex marriage are driven by hate or personal benefit (like those who were against intergration of race and supporting of slavery). People say “Gay straight black white same battle same fight” but that isn’t true. I seldom use the OT as an example of anything unless thats being discussed you need to read the contexts of the posts before you reply to them (maybe thats your issue with the Bible).

Sound DBZ logic cannot be destroyed; the efforts of the so-called super elite will always be in vain. Have at thee Krom!

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote: I don’t know how long it will take, but eventually churches that oppose gay rights will be the minority. If some churches can adapt their preachings to fit with the times, then more can. And the times, they are a changin'.

I think it will be a bit different, I think people who call themselves Christians will become the minority. Why go half way? People are more likely to leave the church than change it.

Actually, that’s a very good point. More people are sloughing off their superstitions today than ever before. I still think churches will become more liberal though.

I’m determined to live forever, or die trying. - Yossarian

daledude wrote:

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote: I don’t know how long it will take, but eventually churches that oppose gay rights will be the minority. If some churches can adapt their preachings to fit with the times, then more can. And the times, they are a changin'.

I think it will be a bit different, I think people who call themselves Christians will become the minority. Why go half way? People are more likely to leave the church than change it.

Actually, that’s a very good point. More people are sloughing off their superstitions today than ever before. I still think churches will become more liberal though.

If the church becomes a minority it may actually become more conservative but if it wants to remain mainstream it will become more liberal. I personally see the former happening.

Sound DBZ logic cannot be destroyed; the efforts of the so-called super elite will always be in vain. Have at thee Krom!

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote:

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote: I don’t know how long it will take, but eventually churches that oppose gay rights will be the minority. If some churches can adapt their preachings to fit with the times, then more can. And the times, they are a changin'.

I think it will be a bit different, I think people who call themselves Christians will become the minority. Why go half way? People are more likely to leave the church than change it.

Actually, that’s a very good point. More people are sloughing off their superstitions today than ever before. I still think churches will become more liberal though.

If the church becomes a minority it may actually become more conservative but if it wants to remain mainstream it will become more liberal. I personally see the former happening.

I think that churches for the most part would sooner adapt than wither and fade into some fringe group. The Christians will become a minority eventually, but not before they become more liberal.

I’m determined to live forever, or die trying. - Yossarian

Well I’m Christian,but if gay People want to Merry let them.What I hate about my Religion is they try to keep everyone from doing something,and try to shove their Religion down other people’s throats.

Anniversaries do gay couples forget them too?

daledude wrote:
I think that churches for the most part would sooner adapt than wither and fade into some fringe group. The Christians will become a minority eventually, but not before they become more liberal.

I think we are more or less moving away from the point where mainstream Christianity can be reformed. Since people have a choice of what they can believe they will more likely take advantage of that.

Sound DBZ logic cannot be destroyed; the efforts of the so-called super elite will always be in vain. Have at thee Krom!

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote:
I think that churches for the most part would sooner adapt than wither and fade into some fringe group. The Christians will become a minority eventually, but not before they become more liberal.

I think we are more or less moving away from the point where mainstream Christianity can be reformed. Since people have a choice of what they can believe they will more likely take advantage of that.

That was probably not meant to be implied but, you kinda sounded like “We should make people believe it to reform the religion." in a way.

Indal wrote:

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote:
I think that churches for the most part would sooner adapt than wither and fade into some fringe group. The Christians will become a minority eventually, but not before they become more liberal.

I think we are more or less moving away from the point where mainstream Christianity can be reformed. Since people have a choice of what they can believe they will more likely take advantage of that.

That was probably not meant to be implied but, you kinda sounded like “We should make people believe it to reform the religion." in a way.

People are more likely to reform a religion if they really don’t have a choice in what they can believe. Why make Christianity different when you could just join another religion (or not have one?). I think thats the mind set today for a lot of people who moved away from the faith (not necessarily you but....then again you always claim to have just woke up one day after a debate with these guys here and became an Atheist. Based on your testimony, you kind of confirm what I’ve been saying. (Not trying to attack you personally or really “attack” anyone) But it seems that people are moving toward the alternative faith route. There are exceptions of course.

Geass wrote: Well I’m Christian,but if gay People want to Merry let them.What I hate about my Religion is they try to keep everyone from doing something,and try to shove their Religion down other people’s throats.

They will get married and it will most likely be nationally legal. But I doubt that will transfer to universial exceptance (or mainstream Christian exceptance). At my church, for example, if a gay couple wanted to join the church they could and would be treated equally (which may be the bad part for them) they shouldn’t be surprised if they hear an anti gay theme sermon. After all we do have divorced people at the church but they will still preach anti divorce sermons.

some one new offline wrote:

Geass wrote: Well I’m Christian,but if gay People want to Merry let them.What I hate about my Religion is they try to keep everyone from doing something,and try to shove their Religion down other people’s throats.

They will get married and it will most likely be nationally legal. But I doubt that will transfer to universial exceptance (or mainstream Christian exceptance). At my church, for example, if a gay couple wanted to join the church they could and would be treated equally (which may be the bad part for them) they shouldn’t be surprised if they hear an anti gay theme sermon. After all we do have divorced people at the church but they will still preach anti divorce sermons.

Divorce and sexual orientation are two very different things. Your church hasn’t accepted gay people if they are still preaching against homosexuality like it’s some kind of sin to overcome.

I’m determined to live forever, or die trying. - Yossarian

some one new offline wrote:

Indal wrote:

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote:
I think that churches for the most part would sooner adapt than wither and fade into some fringe group. The Christians will become a minority eventually, but not before they become more liberal.

I think we are more or less moving away from the point where mainstream Christianity can be reformed. Since people have a choice of what they can believe they will more likely take advantage of that.

That was probably not meant to be implied but, you kinda sounded like “We should make people believe it to reform the religion." in a way.

People are more likely to reform a religion if they really don’t have a choice in what they can believe. Why make Christianity different when you could just join another religion (or not have one?). I think thats the mind set today for a lot of people who moved away from the faith (not necessarily you but....then again you always claim to have just woke up one day after a debate with these guys here and became an Atheist. Based on your testimony, you kind of confirm what I’ve been saying. (Not trying to attack you personally or really “attack” anyone) But it seems that people are moving toward the alternative faith route. There are exceptions of course.

I don’t see why both can’t be happening at the same time. Churches will adapt as best they can just as they’ve always done, but will simultaneously continue to lose attendance. In the end they are just grasping at straws, but I don’t see any reason why they should stop grasping.

I’m determined to live forever, or die trying. - Yossarian

daledude wrote:

some one new offline wrote:

Geass wrote: Well I’m Christian,but if gay People want to Merry let them.What I hate about my Religion is they try to keep everyone from doing something,and try to shove their Religion down other people’s throats.

They will get married and it will most likely be nationally legal. But I doubt that will transfer to universial exceptance (or mainstream Christian exceptance). At my church, for example, if a gay couple wanted to join the church they could and would be treated equally (which may be the bad part for them) they shouldn’t be surprised if they hear an anti gay theme sermon. After all we do have divorced people at the church but they will still preach anti divorce sermons.

Divorce and sexual orientation are two very different things. Your church hasn’t accepted gay people if they are still preaching against homosexuality like it’s some kind of sin to overcome.

They treat homosexuality and divorce as sin. Its not singling out anyone, its merely teaching what has always been taught. Would it not be more hypocritical for a church to change its message simply because they don’t want people to be offended? You may not be religious but think of it from a Christian Church perspective. You teach against homosexuality for a long time but when a gay person comes to join the church you move away from that. Pretty two faced if you ask me. Let them in the church but still have church.

Sound DBZ logic cannot be destroyed; the efforts of the so-called super elite will always be in vain. Have at thee Krom!

daledude wrote:

some one new offline wrote:

Indal wrote:

some one new wrote:

daledude wrote:
I think that churches for the most part would sooner adapt than wither and fade into some fringe group. The Christians will become a minority eventually, but not before they become more liberal.

I think we are more or less moving away from the point where mainstream Christianity can be reformed. Since people have a choice of what they can believe they will more likely take advantage of that.

That was probably not meant to be implied but, you kinda sounded like “We should make people believe it to reform the religion." in a way.

People are more likely to reform a religion if they really don’t have a choice in what they can believe. Why make Christianity different when you could just join another religion (or not have one?). I think thats the mind set today for a lot of people who moved away from the faith (not necessarily you but....then again you always claim to have just woke up one day after a debate with these guys here and became an Atheist. Based on your testimony, you kind of confirm what I’ve been saying. (Not trying to attack you personally or really “attack” anyone) But it seems that people are moving toward the alternative faith route. There are exceptions of course.

I don’t see why both can’t be happening at the same time. Churches will adapt as best they can just as they’ve always done, but will simultaneously continue to lose attendance. In the end they are just grasping at straws, but I don’t see any reason why they should stop grasping.

When I think about a church becoming more accepting of things originally seen as sin I think about the universialist unitarian church. Although the church has roots in Christianity it isn’t really a Christian church. All ideas, beliefs, etc. are allowed and preached in the Church. I say this will be what becomes of the mainstream church. But for the actual Christian only church it will become more isolated.

Sound DBZ logic cannot be destroyed; the efforts of the so-called super elite will always be in vain. Have at thee Krom!