This is simple...If there is free will then there is no divine plan...
__________________
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts
riptorn311 wrote:
This is simple...If there is free will then there is no divine plan...
I think there is a divine plan we just don’t follow it, however, God keeps altering our actions (from our free will) to try to get us back on the path of His plan, until it is too late for us.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
A lot of atheists don’t believe in free will, especially on here. I think watermelon man does, but apart from that I haven’t heard of many others.
Yet, as it were - there’s nothing to prove that free will does NOT exist.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Supernovas, meteor strikes, planets smashing into each other, global warming, killer viruses, serial killers, hurricanes, rapists, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, avalanches, armed robbery, war, genocide, terrorism, child slavery... doesn’t sound all that ordered to me.
Let’s see:
Supernova - Natural death of a star caused by core implosion due to lack of fusionable material to maintain a homeostatic interval.
Meteors - Fragments of platetoid material, all drawn into orbits of belts until collisions within the belts cause creation of new random trajegtories and velocities.
Planets colliding - Result of mathmatical stacking from paths of planetary orbits eventually to intersect, such as in the theory that parrallel lines eventually cross.
That’s some natural occurances cleared up as having set purpose and therefore not chaotic in nature. The term chaos by DEFINITION defines that which has no order or state of predictability. All of these things are predictable as occuring naturally through science.
As for war, genocide, crime, and *heaven forbid I use the word* Sin - try to tell me that mankind is not evil by nature and instinct. If he wasn’t - we’d have nothing to complain about in this arena.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Do you understand that an expansion of a singularity that was the primordial universe which took hundreds of thousands of years later for things like planets to form is completely different from blowing up modern explosive weapons on Earth? Can you grasp that?
And yet we have no evidence whatsoever of the same process occuring today, despite science’s immense claims to having witnessed all kinds of spectacular phenomena in the spatial void through use of telescopes and other media of scientific observation. I won’t even go into the facts that none have replicated these alleged processes through use of science.
Bottom line - Science forgets its place as a MEANS of finding explanation towards the creation or purpose of mankind and instead assumes it is in fact the SOURCE of the cause, which underlies man’s simple instinct to assume he can explain all things. Well if that is such - where did this unique form of intuitive and FREE ability arise from? You going to sit there and tell me that was an accident? Sit there and say that there cannot possibly be anything orderly behind mankind’s inception?
If this be the case, you have a lot to observe upon and come to realize concerning that man, when compared to any other lifeform - bears a unique form of supremacy for capacity of free will and intuition to learn and gain knowledge. There is no life form in existance that uses free will outside of man. How do I know this? Look at any animal. All animals are bound in their free will by the cinder block that is inputed instinct. I say imputed because no matter how far back you look in history - a bird has always been a bird, acted like a bird, eaten what birds eat, mated with birds, done things only birds can do without change brought on by a free willed decision to perform the unorthodox and go outside set boundaries of ability. Try to deny me that.
I’ll chop this off right here, lest my post triple in length.
__________________
Legends are usually bad news. There’s not a lot of difference between heroes and madmen...
Shaun of the Living wrote:
A lot of atheists don’t believe in free will, especially on here. I think watermelon man does, but apart from that I haven’t heard of many others.
Yet, as it were - there’s nothing to prove that free will does NOT exist.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Supernovas, meteor strikes, planets smashing into each other, global warming, killer viruses, serial killers, hurricanes, rapists, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, avalanches, armed robbery, war, genocide, terrorism, child slavery... doesn’t sound all that ordered to me.
Let’s see:
Supernova - Natural death of a star caused by core implosion due to lack of fusionable material to maintain a homeostatic interval.
Meteors - Fragments of platetoid material, all drawn into orbits of belts until collisions within the belts cause creation of new random trajegtories and velocities.
Planets colliding - Result of mathmatical stacking from paths of planetary orbits eventually to intersect, such as in the theory that parrallel lines eventually cross.
That’s some natural occurances cleared up as having set purpose and therefore not chaotic in nature. The term chaos by DEFINITION defines that which has no order or state of predictability. All of these things are predictable as occuring naturally through science.
As for war, genocide, crime, and *heaven forbid I use the word* Sin - try to tell me that mankind is not evil by nature and instinct. If he wasn’t - we’d have nothing to complain about in this arena.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Do you understand that an expansion of a singularity that was the primordial universe which took hundreds of thousands of years later for things like planets to form is completely different from blowing up modern explosive weapons on Earth? Can you grasp that?
And yet we have no evidence whatsoever of the same process occuring today, despite science’s immense claims to having witnessed all kinds of spectacular phenomena in the spatial void through use of telescopes and other media of scientific observation. I won’t even go into the facts that none have replicated these alleged processes through use of science.
Bottom line - Science forgets its place as a MEANS of finding explanation towards the creation or purpose of mankind and instead assumes it is in fact the SOURCE of the cause, which underlies man’s simple instinct to assume he can explain all things. Well if that is such - where did this unique form of intuitive and FREE ability arise from? You going to sit there and tell me that was an accident? Sit there and say that there cannot possibly be anything orderly behind mankind’s inception?
If this be the case, you have a lot to observe upon and come to realize concerning that man, when compared to any other lifeform - bears a unique form of supremacy for capacity of free will and intuition to learn and gain knowledge. There is no life form in existance that uses free will outside of man. How do I know this? Look at any animal. All animals are bound in their free will by the cinder block that is inputed instinct. I say imputed because no matter how far back you look in history - a bird has always been a bird, acted like a bird, eaten what birds eat, mated with birds, done things only birds can do without change brought on by a free willed decision to perform the unorthodox and go outside set boundaries of ability. Try to deny me that.
I’ll chop this off right here, lest my post triple in length.
we dont even really know what happened so how could we even know if we witnessed it?
for all we know when theres a supernova and a black hole is made it creates another universe.
Claims? are you serious? so you dont believe anything science has witnessed or done?
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