Shaun of the Living wrote:
Funny... you people don’t preach religious tolerance for beliefs you don’t like.
What a buzzkill.
And what do you mean, “You people?"
Well, at least my old fellowships/churches didn’t blatantly rip people off of a ton of money; they admitted where those tithes went to and you saw where it went.
RageOverdose wrote:
And what do you mean, “You people?"
Well, at least my old fellowships/churches didn’t blatantly rip people off of a ton of money; they admitted where those tithes went to and you saw where it went.
Excuse me for my ambiguity. I wasn’t speaking about Christians or any religious group. In fact, my statement could even apply to some non-religious people. What I meant was basically; people who at one moment preach almost absolute tolerance for religions like Christianity and Judaism, telling people off for criticising them, who then proceed to mock less mainstream beliefs like Scientology and Mormonism.
Not only do these smaller religions (cults) have an equal lack of evidence for their beliefs as Christianity or other Abrahamic religions, the scriptures and teachings of some popular religions often exceed these minority religions in violence and injustice.
While I realise the average local church is usually an establishment where people congregate together because of mostly harmless teachings like simply believing in Yahweh and Jesus, without the violent stuff in the Bible... churches and religious followers do not represent the true nature of a belief itself, that is determined by scripture. And, at their heart, in the past and on a global scale, Abrahamic religions preach just as much violence, are equally as bad when it comes to brainwashing and have also been used by their original creators for money and power.
RageOverdose wrote:
What a buzzkill.
I don’t want to ruin people’s fun, it just pisses me off to see such hypocrisy when it comes to religious apologists. Freedom of speech is something I value highly and want everyone to have, whether I disagree with them or not, but the people arguing against me on this issue only support respect for religion until they come across one they don’t like.
You wanna have a laugh?
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Last edited 14 Sep 2009 06:27 am by Shaun of the Living
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Excuse me for my ambiguity. I wasn’t speaking about Christians or any religious group. In fact, my statement could even apply to some non-religious people. What I meant was basically; people who at one moment preach almost absolute tolerance for religions like Christianity and Judaism, telling people off for criticising them, who then proceed to mock less mainstream beliefs like Scientology and Mormonism.
Not only do these smaller religions (cults) have an equal lack of evidence for their beliefs as Christianity or other Abrahamic religions, the scriptures and teachings of some popular religions often exceed these minority religions in violence and injustice.
Because I’m nitpicky and agree with a lot of your post, I have to find something to hit at:
Cults are much smaller than Mormonism. Cults wouldn’t quite exist without reference to religions, because anyone can look at the definition of cult and apply it to any major religion. Cults are best described as small religious sub-groups that usually are very odd and sometimes extremely messed up by society’s standards. Mormonism is pretty normal on a day-by-day basis.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
While I realise the average local church is usually an establishment where people congregate together because of mostly harmless teachings like simply believing in Yahweh and Jesus, without the violent stuff in the Bible... churches and religious followers do not represent the true nature of a belief itself, that is determined by scripture. And, at their heart, in the past and on a global scale, Abrahamic religions preach just as much violence, are equally as bad when it comes to brainwashing and have also been used by their original creators for money and power.
Again, nitpicky, few, if any, Jews go to church. Although I think a synagogue is about the same thing, I’m not entirely sure.
Yes, Abrahamic religions are known to promote violence. Sometimes without just reason from the text, others I’m sure can justify with the texts. Nevertheless, Scientology is just a scam. At least with the Bible, it was an attempt to give people moral code and some explanation to this world. And in it doesn’t require people to shell out over $1,000 to be “initiated” by a bullshit test that’s based on a fictional book everyone knows the author to.
I can be a “hypocrite” here because Scientology is full of shit and it’s pretty easy to know this for a fact. I’ll pick and choose based upon what I have observed. While, yeah, I’ll usually not hate on a belief just because it isn’t mine or I’m not fond of it, with Scientology, I know that they are currently screwing people over.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
I don’t want to ruin people’s fun, it just pisses me off to see such hypocrisy when it comes to religious apologists. Freedom of speech is something I value highly and want everyone to have, whether I disagree with them or not, but the people arguing against me on this issue only support respect for religion until they come across one they don’t like.
By the way, false appeals fallacy. No, I’m not arguing you just because I respect religions I like, I’m arguing you because I don’t like religions who are blatantly screwing people over. I wouldn’t have a problem with Scientology if they weren’t REQUIRING you to pay a large sum of money to “help” you. If that wasn’t there, or optional, I’d be okay. And that I know for a fact that the text is fictional makes it worse.
As for being a buzzkill, it seemed like a pretty silly thread to me. After all, Scientology is the butt of many jokes now-a-days, so I assumed it wasn’t really serious. I think you have an itch to start something or really take yourself seriously all the time, both of which are bad, in my opinion of course.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Excuse me for my ambiguity. I wasn’t speaking about Christians or any religious group. In fact, my statement could even apply to some non-religious people. What I meant was basically; people who at one moment preach almost absolute tolerance for religions like Christianity and Judaism, telling people off for criticising them, who then proceed to mock less mainstream beliefs like Scientology and Mormonism.
Not only do these smaller religions (cults) have an equal lack of evidence for their beliefs as Christianity or other Abrahamic religions, the scriptures and teachings of some popular religions often exceed these minority religions in violence and injustice.
Because I’m nitpicky and agree with a lot of your post, I have to find something to hit at:
Cults are much smaller than Mormonism. Cults wouldn’t quite exist without reference to religions, because anyone can look at the definition of cult and apply it to any major religion. Cults are best described as small religious sub-groups that usually are very odd and sometimes extremely messed up by society’s standards. Mormonism is pretty normal on a day-by-day basis.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
While I realise the average local church is usually an establishment where people congregate together because of mostly harmless teachings like simply believing in Yahweh and Jesus, without the violent stuff in the Bible... churches and religious followers do not represent the true nature of a belief itself, that is determined by scripture. And, at their heart, in the past and on a global scale, Abrahamic religions preach just as much violence, are equally as bad when it comes to brainwashing and have also been used by their original creators for money and power.
Again, nitpicky, few, if any, Jews go to church. Although I think a synagogue is about the same thing, I’m not entirely sure.
Yes, Abrahamic religions are known to promote violence. Sometimes without just reason from the text, others I’m sure can justify with the texts. Nevertheless, Scientology is just a scam. At least with the Bible, it was an attempt to give people moral code and some explanation to this world. And in it doesn’t require people to shell out over $1,000 to be “initiated” by a bullshit test that’s based on a fictional book everyone knows the author to.
I can be a “hypocrite” here because Scientology is full of shit and it’s pretty easy to know this for a fact. I’ll pick and choose based upon what I have observed. While, yeah, I’ll usually not hate on a belief just because it isn’t mine or I’m not fond of it, with Scientology, I know that they are currently screwing people over.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
I don’t want to ruin people’s fun, it just pisses me off to see such hypocrisy when it comes to religious apologists. Freedom of speech is something I value highly and want everyone to have, whether I disagree with them or not, but the people arguing against me on this issue only support respect for religion until they come across one they don’t like.
By the way, false appeals fallacy. No, I’m not arguing you just because I respect religions I like, I’m arguing you because I don’t like religions who are blatantly screwing people over. I wouldn’t have a problem with Scientology if they weren’t REQUIRING you to pay a large sum of money to “help” you. If that wasn’t there, or optional, I’d be okay. And that I know for a fact that the text is fictional makes it worse.
As for being a buzzkill, it seemed like a pretty silly thread to me. After all, Scientology is the butt of many jokes now-a-days, so I assumed it wasn’t really serious. I think you have an itch to start something or really take yourself seriously all the time, both of which are bad, in my opinion of course.
RageOverdose wrote:
Yes, Abrahamic religions are known to promote violence. Sometimes without just reason from the text, others I’m sure can justify with the texts. Nevertheless, Scientology is just a scam.
I admit; Scientology has killed people, it treats homosexuality as a disease, it brainwashes people into giving them money and it has convinced it’s members to dogmatically ignore scientific knowledge. But you know what? Not only does Christianity do all of those things, it does them on a much larger scale that hurts more people. So, if you’re going to reveal the truth about religions that do damage to society, why focus on minor problems?
RageOverdose wrote:
At least with the Bible, it was an attempt to give people moral code and some explanation to this world. And in it doesn’t require people to shell out over $1,000 to be “initiated” by a bullshit test that’s based on a fictional book everyone knows the author to.
Indeed it did gave people morals and explanations, hundreds of years ago. Now those morals and explanations are grossly outdated and do more harm than good.
If the West became more secular, I think it would be a much better place:
- Freedom of speech would be more accepted without Christian fundies trying to ban every book, movie and video game with wizards and demons in it. Not to mention people would be more likely to ignore material with swearing or sexual content that offends them, rather than censor it.
- Less parents would mutilate their children’s genitals without consent, not to mention without anaesthetic.
- Homophobia would drop like a rock with the fall of the religious right. Who knows, they might even get the same rights as everyone else.
- People would stop trying to teach creationist pseudoscience in the public classroom.
- There would be more acceptance for the rights of terminally ill patients to end their own life, and more funding for life saving stem cell research.
- Less sexual guilt and frustration caused by Christianity, which seriously ruins the sex-lives and confidence of some people.
- The Pope would stop telling Catholics in Africa that condoms cause AIDS. Imagine how many lives that would save.
RageOverdose wrote:
I can be a “hypocrite” here because Scientology is full of shit and it’s pretty easy to know this for a fact.
Christianity is no different, it’s just easier to realise Scientology is bullshit when you haven’t been raised in a society where it’s so common.
RageOverdose wrote:
I’ll pick and choose based upon what I have observed. While, yeah, I’ll usually not hate on a belief just because it isn’t mine or I’m not fond of it, with Scientology, I know that they are currently screwing people over.
Like I mentioned before, Christianity, Islam and Judaism are currently screwing people over too, just in less direct psychological and social ways, rather than financial dishonesty and legal bullying.
RageOverdose wrote:
By the way, false appeals fallacy. No, I’m not arguing you just because I respect religions I like, I’m arguing you because I don’t like religions who are blatantly screwing people over.
I don’t like religions that are screwing people over either, but if you ask me what’s a more important priority I would first pick the problems that are most widespread and affecting more people. Scientology is relatively minor in these aspects compared to Christianity or Islam.
RageOverdose wrote:
I wouldn’t have a problem with Scientology if they weren’t REQUIRING you to pay a large sum of money to “help” you. If that wasn’t there, or optional, I’d be okay. And that I know for a fact that the text is fictional makes it worse.
I’m not defending Scientology here. I’m against it just as much as any other lie that hurts people. But it frustrates me to see religions that are even bigger problems than Scientology, but more accepted.
RageOverdose wrote:
As for being a buzzkill, it seemed like a pretty silly thread to me. After all, Scientology is the butt of many jokes now-a-days, so I assumed it wasn’t really serious. I think you have an itch to start something or really take yourself seriously all the time, both of which are bad, in my opinion of course.
It might seem like that because I usually come on here when I’m in the mood for a serious debate. If I was in the mood for being a dumbass I’d go on 4chan...
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Last edited 03 Oct 2009 05:31 am by Shaun of the Living
I don’t mean to sound rude but, doesn’t all religion kind of have at least ONE major flaw in its beliefs and methods of GETTING SHIT DONE! Just try to imagine the indians seeing a storm... it scares them and then someone in their village dies, then bad crops, and then they get attacked by a rivel tribe. Do you think they got the felling that someone hates them ina way? If they did lets say invent a spirit to blame on all of this for happening to them. Then they try to please the spirit by killing a neahboring tribe. So, they kill some people and (by chance) they have good crops that year. do you think they’re going to try to keep pleasing or angor it and die. Any way thats my opinion on how alot of people could be swayed by things that we see every day and, have explenations for.
D.W. wrote:
Scientology is slightly higher then christianity nonsense, but yes I agree.
Thats what happens when your the new kid on the block and all the good crazy miracles have allredy been taken. Like Bill Maher said " you have to up the ante ". Look at mormonism. Magic underwear, secret passwords into heaven, and best of all god living on the planet Kolov....Truthfully it’s all sadly funny until you realise that people who believe this nonsence are the ones making the laws and setting standards for societys norm....
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“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts
Church always taught people about the scriptures. Seriously. It never mentioned the sin of thirst, alcholism(bread retains that shit you know). did it? Well it could be. That would make Jesus a sinner and why Jews are the “chosen people” but I’m not Jewish so whatever...but theres always one extra bonus deadly sin that no one talked about until I decided to name it.
BLUE BERRY PIE BLUE BERRY PIE BLUEBERRY PIE ****ya, i seriously know better.
Synogouges are where Jews go to suck each other off for sustenance in their daily lives..just kidding. Anyways that’s effin tyler durden behind that group of V people.
shameckalahaiyahsmishlogo (Obey yer thirst) *spurt* lol.
6_9 By the way rage I found some killer hacks for metroid, and then apparently half life character mods, it was bad ass, and apparently a same dance vid, then...a suggestive list of snake and samus poses, and then...nintendocon..apparently...shit got retarded and im now chemically brain dead. so dont go there. im still trying to understand wtf happened to the cool threads on this site. It’s not fucking G3 you know. Or g4 or wtfever. that place is gay. tv is gay. and ____ is gay. im pretty sure he is too. I’m pretty sure it all went wrong when I saw tomb raider lying on the bed being voiced by peter griffin. It was funny at first, then I kinda felt bad for myself, me being god, it practically killed me so just thought you guys would appreciate that.
yup im gonna go commit pseudocide now and down a bunch of tylernol p.m.'s ^you wouldnt ban me for this, you love me.
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