Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Where are you getting this information that he was simply being open minded? He was trying to establish a kingdom above God’s.
Isaiah 14:
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
And even if prayer would work it needs to be a personal choice.
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Where are you getting this information that he was simply being open minded? He was trying to establish a kingdom above God’s.
Isaiah 14:
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
And even if prayer would work it needs to be a personal choice.
I.E. free will.
__________________
Sound DBZ logic cannot be destroyed; the efforts of the so-called super elite will always be in vain. Have at thee Krom!
So why not pray for him to make the “right” choice?
Funny thing about Isaiah. That quote in scripture is actually taken from a letter he wrote about the King of Babylon, who was sarcastically referred to as Lucifer (or Day Star).
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Where are you getting this information that he was simply being open minded? He was trying to establish a kingdom above God’s.
Isaiah 14:
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
And even if prayer would work it needs to be a personal choice.
Mistranslation, I have explained this before. It has nothing to do with a fallen angel but a Babylon King, and Lucifer translates to Morning Star which is what Jesus is called in Revelations.
Khorib wrote:
So why not pray for him to make the “right” choice?
It would still be up to him. You can’t use prayer to control people just to guide them.
yea... now you are just dodging. I never said it would control him, just to influence him... cause, I mean, the devil stepping down and joining the good side wouldn’t be one of the greatest things to ever happen for this world... right?
Khorib wrote:
So why not pray for him to make the “right” choice?
It would still be up to him. You can’t use prayer to control people just to guide them.
yea... now you are just dodging. I never said it would control him, just to influence him... cause, I mean, the devil stepping down and joining the good side wouldn’t be one of the greatest things to ever happen for this world... right?
I’m not dodging, and it would be very beneficial, if the Devil became an angel again that would be powerful. But really he was an angel meaning he dealt witnessed God’s power first hand and knew the consequences for his actions. He was extremely prideful, especially if(for the sake of argument) he went to hell on his own. Why was this action done at all (whether he attampted to over throw God or “establish” his own kingdom)? Free will! so get rid of it and everything will work out. Satan will no longer be an adversary of God and everyone will worship God that would be the greatest thing that happened to the world. But alas, you can’t get of free will.
We’re not talking about getting rid of freewill. We’re talking about praying for the devil for the very same reason you would pray for someone, anyone, to come back to god. If praying does not have the power to help that happen, then why pray at all?
Khorib wrote:
We’re not talking about getting rid of freewill. We’re talking about praying for the devil for the very same reason you would pray for someone, anyone, to come back to god. If praying does not have the power to help that happen, then why pray at all?
Because you pray help guide people to God and Satan already knew God pretty closely. Where as a lot of people are simply lost. Satan was close to God, knew the rules and the consequences for his actions as a result he is eternally damned in hell. But for the sake of the argument say he established hell as his own kingdom and left by choice (remember judeoism, islam and christianity aren’t typically duelism based religions) God and satan aren’t equal so evil will still exist if the devil some how turn from his ways. Satan still knew that God wouldn’t tolerate insubordination.
__________________
Sound DBZ logic cannot be destroyed; the efforts of the so-called super elite will always be in vain. Have at thee Krom!
ChaosSpartan Prince of the Power of the Air Rep: 12
Khorib wrote:
Now, I thought this was a very clever idea. Since Christians believe that prayer and God have the power to change the world and people... so I say why not pray to God for Lucifer to stop rebelling against God and join in the wholesome Christian fun? Christians pray for atheists and other religions to turn around and see the “truth”, so why not the Devil? In the end, isn’t he just another person with a case of “daddy issues”?
Ironically, most of the Christians I’ve brought this idea up to were dumbfounded and confused by the idea, and most of the time immediately shunned it as blasphemous.
What’s up with that?!
Satan is in Hell (duh). Hell = complete separation from God.
Just like any person can do, Satan decided to hate God. Satan knows about God, and he knows about Jesus. He knows that Jesus came to save God’s creation. Satan gets back at God by attacking that creation. Basically, as long as you don’t recognize your nature, and that you need God, Lucifer is quite content.
And that is why we don’t pray for Satan.
ChaosSpartan Prince of the Power of the Air Rep: 12
Khorib wrote:
some one new logged off wrote:
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
ChaosSpartan Prince of the Power of the Air Rep: 12
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
Khorib wrote:
some one new logged off wrote:
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
ChaosSpartan Prince of the Power of the Air Rep: 12
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
Khorib wrote:
some one new logged off wrote:
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
ChaosSpartan Prince of the Power of the Air Rep: 12
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
Khorib wrote:
some one new logged off wrote:
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
Angels don’t have will.
Perhaps not all of them do, but apparently some do. Example: Lucifer.
