Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
Angels? I’d think you’d know more about your own beliefs?
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Why don’t you just say what you really want to say. - “please shut up, don’t make me think”. - Gplex
ChaosSpartan Prince of the Power of the Air Rep: 12
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
Khorib wrote:
some one new logged off wrote:
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
Angels don’t have will.
Perhaps not all of them do, but apparently some do. Example: Lucifer.
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
Angels don’t have will.
Perhaps not all of them do, but apparently some do. Example: Lucifer.
LUCIFER, means morning star....Lucifer is NOT satan. That whole fallen angel bit is mistranslation.
ChaosSpartan Prince of the Power of the Air Rep: 12
ChibiDiscoDhaos wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
ONEoutdainfinite wrote:
ChaosSpartan wrote:
Khorib wrote:
some one new logged off wrote:
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
Angels don’t have will.
Perhaps not all of them do, but apparently some do. Example: Lucifer.
LUCIFER, means morning star....Lucifer is NOT satan. That whole fallen angel bit is mistranslation.
Khorib wrote:
So then tell me this. Is Lucifer the origin of all sin?
Also, you say Lucifer is in a place of eternal torment, but is he being tortured eternally as well? I think he is there in someways by choice.
Also, what did Satan do that was so bad? You say he is undeserving of forgiveness (how Christian of you), but all he did was refuse to live in bondage. He wanted to determine his own life and he wants other to think like-mindly.
Doesn’t sound so “evil” to me. Sounds like he wouldn’t be so hard to save either if Christians actually did the christian thing and loved him anyway, even through his flaws, and tried to guide him back to the light.
You only say it wouldn’t matter because you don’t care to try. Shame on you.
There is a difference between wanting to be free and wanting to take God’s place (which is what he attempted to do). He willingly went in to battle with God and was defeated by Michael the archangel. The real question would be, why would some one so close to God be willing to rebel and try to take over knowing that he is the creator of every thing...including him. People today don’t believe because they “need proof” he had proof but still wanted to take over.
He didn’t try to dethrone god, he caused mutiny and Micheal kicked him out, then a bunch of angels followed him.
Instead of arguing the why, answer my question instead. Why is praying for Lucifer useless? Because prayer isn’t powerful enough to help change someone’s mind?
Because God does nothing to Satan save bar some of his attempts at attacking us. If you pray for Satan, your prayer will be answered with a “no” because God has chosen to let Satan do what he wants. God is not going to change Satan’s mind. God let Satan to do his own will. Did that answer your question?
God can’t mess with free will?
Can, but doesn’t.
Why not?
God wants US to choose HIM. If he wanted mindless worship-bots, he’d have made those.
Angels don’t have will.
Perhaps not all of them do, but apparently some do. Example: Lucifer.
LUCIFER, means morning star....Lucifer is NOT satan. That whole fallen angel bit is mistranslation.
I am intrigued. Explain.
Book of Isaiah How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star(Lucifer), son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?’
That quote in scripture is actually taken from a letter he wrote about the King of Babylon, who was sarcastically referred to as Lucifer (or Day Star).
This is a brilliant idea. It is perfectly efficient logic to think that the best way of ending evil and thereby doing the most societal good is to pray for the devil. I am a Christian, and I firmly support this supposition in theory and in practice. In fact, I did this very thing before looking for this post. However, while I side with this, I do have one moral caveat that it may have an unbiblical element to it to believe that God’s plan is not to put an end the devil by throwing him into the abyss for eternity. However, on the whole, I don’t think it can do any real harm and instead it has a tremendous positive upside.
Glen. T. wrote:
It is perfectly efficient logic to think that the best way of ending evil and thereby doing the most societal good is to pray for the devil.
Telepathically wishing for an invisible shape shifting demon to renounce evil is a logical way of ending the world’s problems?
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Last edited 18 Oct 2009 06:47 am by Shaun of the Living
