CPO Fraser wrote:
I think there is life after death.
I find it hard for people to even think about eternal nothingness as even an option.
It’s not eternal nothingness. It’s just ceasing to exist. It’s not like you’lle still have your conscious.
Humans have a Soul, that soul warms the body, once you die it goes to heaven or hell.
That would suck. Having to live forever. In hell you would burn forever (although you could probably get used to it) and in heaven you would eventually be bored out of your mind. Or at least, that’s what I would guess. I can’t imagine life being fun without problems or challenges to solve and overcome.
bugsbunny wrote:
And because we chose evil, God wont allow sin into heaven so he is giving us a chance to get rid of sin on this earth.
Why doesn’t he get rid of the sin himself? That seems like a much easier plan.
and He did by sending His Son to die on the cross.
So then why do we still have so much sin in the world? Why are we still born with original sin? And why sacrifice someone to forgive the sins? Couldn’t he just have forgiven us?
Jesus' sacrifice was symbolical. People of that day would sacrifice animals to be forgiven of their sins. Hence the name Jesus has as 'The Lamb of God'
Jesus was the permanent sacrifice. That’s why he died for our sins, because we killed animals to do that before.
ramunematt wrote:
Well actually since he is all knowing, he would know which one we would choose whether he sent the devil or not. So why did he send the devil and then blame us when he already knew it was going to happen? See what I mean by free will not being compatible with determinism?
Besides, why did his “perfect” creation choose evil? If he had a divine plan then he planned us to be evil. If he was all knowing then he would know we would turn out to be evil. He could have easily changed this before he put his plan into motion, but he didn’t. Either he had the will but couldn’t, or could but didn’t have the will.
You’re not getting this are You?
Let me make this simple for you. God CAN see into the future, he CAN become all knowing and see what we have in store for us. BUT because he’s all powerful he can decide NOT to know what the future hold, however he is still all knowing, because he knows that he CAN see what it is.
Now, that’s one way too look at it. The other way too look at is this way. God knows every move we’ll ever make, BUT we still have free will because we can decide not to make that move. Does this mean God didn’t know it would happen? No, it means that he knew it would happen. But once again you can say, well since it’s fate it’s not free will, but it still is. It’s free will because you freely choose to it on your own with no outside influences.
ramunematt wrote:
Cid wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Actually, yes it does. Your future being predetermined means every move you will ever make has already been destined. Whether you think you have free will or not, if destiny exists then you can’t change it. Theoretically, even if you can change it, it means nothing because it would turn out it wasn’t your destiny in the first place.
Here is a link that explains why the two aren’t compatible
So now I assume that you no longer believe in free will because it contradicts science, right?
No, because I don’t believe in foreknowledge/destiny.
So you don’t believe that Time Travel is theoretically possible either? Even though most scientist say it is?
You still don’t understand why determinism and free will are incompatible. I don’t blame you, it took me a while to figure it out too. I think I might be able to ask a question that will put your hypothesis to the test:
Can god ask a question that he himself doesn’t know the answer to?
Theoretically I think time travel might be possible, but as far as I know time only moves in one direction. That, and time dilation, which has been observed.
Why would God need to ask himself a question, he knows all.
__________________
alright the clans are back!!!! Lets revive the game section!
ramunematt wrote:
But isn’t he all knowing? If he is all knowing he would have known what the results would be without even having to conduct that experiment.
Scientist create experiments with animals, they know what will happen already, so why do they still do it? To observe it.
CPO Fraser wrote:
I think there is life after death.
I find it hard for people to even think about eternal nothingness as even an option.
It’s not eternal nothingness. It’s just ceasing to exist. It’s not like you’lle still have your conscious.
Humans have a Soul, that soul warms the body, once you die it goes to heaven or hell.
That would suck. Having to live forever. In hell you would burn forever (although you could probably get used to it) and in heaven you would eventually be bored out of your mind. Or at least, that’s what I would guess. I can’t imagine life being fun without problems or challenges to solve and overcome.
How would it suck? You would be living in a new world, no pain, hurt, evil, just good. No hunger, no thirst, living with God. Walls of Gold. I cant wait for Armeggedon.
__________________
alright the clans are back!!!! Lets revive the game section!
bugsbunny wrote:
And because we chose evil, God wont allow sin into heaven so he is giving us a chance to get rid of sin on this earth.
Why doesn’t he get rid of the sin himself? That seems like a much easier plan.
and He did by sending His Son to die on the cross.
So then why do we still have so much sin in the world? Why are we still born with original sin? And why sacrifice someone to forgive the sins? Couldn’t he just have forgiven us?
Listen again, we are born with sin because of Adam and Eve eating the apple from the tree that God commanded not to. He sacrificed His Son to save us.
But why sacrifice his son to save us? If he is all powerful then he should have just forgiven them without the trouble of sending down Jesus to die.
Also, does Jesus dieing for our sins also mean Adam and Eve’s (and by extension our own sins) were also forgiven?
ramunematt wrote:
But isn’t he all knowing? If he is all knowing he would have known what the results would be without even having to conduct that experiment.
Scientist create experiments with animals, they know what will happen already, so why do they still do it? To observe it.
bugsbunny wrote:
And because we chose evil, God wont allow sin into heaven so he is giving us a chance to get rid of sin on this earth.
Why doesn’t he get rid of the sin himself? That seems like a much easier plan.
and He did by sending His Son to die on the cross.
So then why do we still have so much sin in the world? Why are we still born with original sin? And why sacrifice someone to forgive the sins? Couldn’t he just have forgiven us?
Listen again, we are born with sin because of Adam and Eve eating the apple from the tree that God commanded not to. He sacrificed His Son to save us.
But why sacrifice his son to save us? If he is all powerful then he should have just forgiven them without the trouble of sending down Jesus to die.
Also, does Jesus dieing for our sins also mean Adam and Eve’s (and by extension our own sins) were also forgiven?
He sent his son to save us so that we can live eternal life.
__________________
alright the clans are back!!!! Lets revive the game section!
bugsbunny wrote:
And because we chose evil, God wont allow sin into heaven so he is giving us a chance to get rid of sin on this earth.
Why doesn’t he get rid of the sin himself? That seems like a much easier plan.
and He did by sending His Son to die on the cross.
So then why do we still have so much sin in the world? Why are we still born with original sin? And why sacrifice someone to forgive the sins? Couldn’t he just have forgiven us?
Jesus' sacrifice was symbolical. People of that day would sacrifice animals to be forgiven of their sins. Hence the name Jesus has as 'The Lamb of God'
Jesus was the permanent sacrifice. That’s why he died for our sins, because we killed animals to do that before.
Lamb of god... do you know where that comes from? I remember in the Zeitgeist movie it explains what it really means. I can’t recall exactly what it meant, but I know it wasn’t about god.
Anyway, sacrificing is sick even by their standards. The moral zeitgeist back then was pretty bad.
Why did people have to sacrifice animals in the first place? If I remember the Bib;e correctly, god himself prefered animal sacrifices.
ramunematt wrote:
Well actually since he is all knowing, he would know which one we would choose whether he sent the devil or not. So why did he send the devil and then blame us when he already knew it was going to happen? See what I mean by free will not being compatible with determinism?
Besides, why did his “perfect” creation choose evil? If he had a divine plan then he planned us to be evil. If he was all knowing then he would know we would turn out to be evil. He could have easily changed this before he put his plan into motion, but he didn’t. Either he had the will but couldn’t, or could but didn’t have the will.
You’re not getting this are You?
Let me make this simple for you. God CAN see into the future, he CAN become all knowing and see what we have in store for us. BUT because he’s all powerful he can decide NOT to know what the future hold, however he is still all knowing, because he knows that he CAN see what it is.
Now, that’s one way too look at it. The other way too look at is this way. God knows every move we’ll ever make, BUT we still have free will because we can decide not to make that move. Does this mean God didn’t know it would happen? No, it means that he knew it would happen. But once again you can say, well since it’s fate it’s not free will, but it still is. It’s free will because you freely choose to it on your own with no outside influences.
ramunematt wrote:
Cid wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Actually, yes it does. Your future being predetermined means every move you will ever make has already been destined. Whether you think you have free will or not, if destiny exists then you can’t change it. Theoretically, even if you can change it, it means nothing because it would turn out it wasn’t your destiny in the first place.
Here is a link that explains why the two aren’t compatible
So now I assume that you no longer believe in free will because it contradicts science, right?
No, because I don’t believe in foreknowledge/destiny.
So you don’t believe that Time Travel is theoretically possible either? Even though most scientist say it is?
You still don’t understand why determinism and free will are incompatible. I don’t blame you, it took me a while to figure it out too. I think I might be able to ask a question that will put your hypothesis to the test:
Can god ask a question that he himself doesn’t know the answer to?
Theoretically I think time travel might be possible, but as far as I know time only moves in one direction. That, and time dilation, which has been observed.
Why would God need to ask himself a question, he knows all.
“Can god ask a question he can’t answer”
So, your saying he is all knowing. Let’s apply that to this. If god is able to answer the question, then it means he can’t ask a question he can’t answer; therefore he is not all powerful.
CPO Fraser wrote:
I think there is life after death.
I find it hard for people to even think about eternal nothingness as even an option.
It’s not eternal nothingness. It’s just ceasing to exist. It’s not like you’lle still have your conscious.
Humans have a Soul, that soul warms the body, once you die it goes to heaven or hell.
That would suck. Having to live forever. In hell you would burn forever (although you could probably get used to it) and in heaven you would eventually be bored out of your mind. Or at least, that’s what I would guess. I can’t imagine life being fun without problems or challenges to solve and overcome.
How would it suck? You would be living in a new world, no pain, hurt, evil, just good. No hunger, no thirst, living with God. Walls of Gold. I cant wait for Armeggedon.
Because life without challenges and problems is boring.
ramunematt wrote:
Well actually since he is all knowing, he would know which one we would choose whether he sent the devil or not. So why did he send the devil and then blame us when he already knew it was going to happen? See what I mean by free will not being compatible with determinism?
Besides, why did his “perfect” creation choose evil? If he had a divine plan then he planned us to be evil. If he was all knowing then he would know we would turn out to be evil. He could have easily changed this before he put his plan into motion, but he didn’t. Either he had the will but couldn’t, or could but didn’t have the will.
You’re not getting this are You?
Let me make this simple for you. God CAN see into the future, he CAN become all knowing and see what we have in store for us. BUT because he’s all powerful he can decide NOT to know what the future hold, however he is still all knowing, because he knows that he CAN see what it is.
Now, that’s one way too look at it. The other way too look at is this way. God knows every move we’ll ever make, BUT we still have free will because we can decide not to make that move. Does this mean God didn’t know it would happen? No, it means that he knew it would happen. But once again you can say, well since it’s fate it’s not free will, but it still is. It’s free will because you freely choose to it on your own with no outside influences.
ramunematt wrote:
Cid wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Actually, yes it does. Your future being predetermined means every move you will ever make has already been destined. Whether you think you have free will or not, if destiny exists then you can’t change it. Theoretically, even if you can change it, it means nothing because it would turn out it wasn’t your destiny in the first place.
Here is a link that explains why the two aren’t compatible
So now I assume that you no longer believe in free will because it contradicts science, right?
No, because I don’t believe in foreknowledge/destiny.
So you don’t believe that Time Travel is theoretically possible either? Even though most scientist say it is?
You still don’t understand why determinism and free will are incompatible. I don’t blame you, it took me a while to figure it out too. I think I might be able to ask a question that will put your hypothesis to the test:
Can god ask a question that he himself doesn’t know the answer to?
Theoretically I think time travel might be possible, but as far as I know time only moves in one direction. That, and time dilation, which has been observed.
Why would God need to ask himself a question, he knows all.
“Can god ask a question he can’t answer”
So, your saying he is all knowing. Let’s apply that to this. If god is able to answer the question, then it means he can’t ask a question he can’t answer; therefore he is not all powerful.
And why would he ask himself a question?
__________________
alright the clans are back!!!! Lets revive the game section!
ramunematt wrote:
But isn’t he all knowing? If he is all knowing he would have known what the results would be without even having to conduct that experiment.
Scientist create experiments with animals, they know what will happen already, so why do they still do it? To observe it.
But scientists aren’t all knowing.
Does it matter? God did it to observe it.
Yes, it does matter when you are all knowing. From what you just said about knowing the outcome but performing the observation anyway seems pretty sadistic.
bugsbunny wrote:
And because we chose evil, God wont allow sin into heaven so he is giving us a chance to get rid of sin on this earth.
Why doesn’t he get rid of the sin himself? That seems like a much easier plan.
and He did by sending His Son to die on the cross.
So then why do we still have so much sin in the world? Why are we still born with original sin? And why sacrifice someone to forgive the sins? Couldn’t he just have forgiven us?
Listen again, we are born with sin because of Adam and Eve eating the apple from the tree that God commanded not to. He sacrificed His Son to save us.
But why sacrifice his son to save us? If he is all powerful then he should have just forgiven them without the trouble of sending down Jesus to die.
Also, does Jesus dieing for our sins also mean Adam and Eve’s (and by extension our own sins) were also forgiven?
He sent his son to save us so that we can live eternal life.
ramunematt wrote:
Well actually since he is all knowing, he would know which one we would choose whether he sent the devil or not. So why did he send the devil and then blame us when he already knew it was going to happen? See what I mean by free will not being compatible with determinism?
Besides, why did his “perfect” creation choose evil? If he had a divine plan then he planned us to be evil. If he was all knowing then he would know we would turn out to be evil. He could have easily changed this before he put his plan into motion, but he didn’t. Either he had the will but couldn’t, or could but didn’t have the will.
You’re not getting this are You?
Let me make this simple for you. God CAN see into the future, he CAN become all knowing and see what we have in store for us. BUT because he’s all powerful he can decide NOT to know what the future hold, however he is still all knowing, because he knows that he CAN see what it is.
Now, that’s one way too look at it. The other way too look at is this way. God knows every move we’ll ever make, BUT we still have free will because we can decide not to make that move. Does this mean God didn’t know it would happen? No, it means that he knew it would happen. But once again you can say, well since it’s fate it’s not free will, but it still is. It’s free will because you freely choose to it on your own with no outside influences.
ramunematt wrote:
Cid wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Actually, yes it does. Your future being predetermined means every move you will ever make has already been destined. Whether you think you have free will or not, if destiny exists then you can’t change it. Theoretically, even if you can change it, it means nothing because it would turn out it wasn’t your destiny in the first place.
Here is a link that explains why the two aren’t compatible
So now I assume that you no longer believe in free will because it contradicts science, right?
No, because I don’t believe in foreknowledge/destiny.
So you don’t believe that Time Travel is theoretically possible either? Even though most scientist say it is?
You still don’t understand why determinism and free will are incompatible. I don’t blame you, it took me a while to figure it out too. I think I might be able to ask a question that will put your hypothesis to the test:
Can god ask a question that he himself doesn’t know the answer to?
Theoretically I think time travel might be possible, but as far as I know time only moves in one direction. That, and time dilation, which has been observed.
Why would God need to ask himself a question, he knows all.
“Can god ask a question he can’t answer”
So, your saying he is all knowing. Let’s apply that to this. If god is able to answer the question, then it means he can’t ask a question he can’t answer; therefore he is not all powerful.
And why would he ask himself a question?
Hypothetically speaking. Of course, maybe he just wants to observe it.
