Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
Because we are a more complex species.
We have a better ability to survive because of our social nature. We do not rely on instinct for survival, so we have a greater control.
We think abstractly. We can find meaning in things that other creatures cannot. This is best shown by our system of language. No other species develops language like we do. Sure, we can teach primates language, but they have to be taught first. I guess, in a sense, so do we, but we, as humans, developed language before we even used it, or rather, it developed as it was used.
Of course, without a good definition of better, we can’t really go anywhere with this.
But, yes, in your sense it is a bit arrogant, but many people probably think this anyway. I’d venture to say you’re in denial or lying if you don’t, because I see very few people who live outside of any society.
Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
Because we are a more complex species.
We have a better ability to survive because of our social nature. We do not rely on instinct for survival, so we have a greater control.
We think abstractly. We can find meaning in things that other creatures cannot. This is best shown by our system of language. No other species develops language like we do. Sure, we can teach primates language, but they have to be taught first. I guess, in a sense, so do we, but we, as humans, developed language before we even used it, or rather, it developed as it was used.
Of course, without a good definition of better, we can’t really go anywhere with this.
But, yes, in your sense it is a bit arrogant, but many people probably think this anyway. I’d venture to say you’re in denial or lying if you don’t, because I see very few people who live outside of any society.
Good point, but answer me this. A pig has been proven to be as intelligent as a human 3 year old child. So it would probably win against a three year old in a battle of survival... and yet the 3 year old has a soul and the animal no?
Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
It sounds as though you’re lumping together all beliefs in deities, higher powers, etc. and fate or “divine purpose” into equaling Christianity.
There a number of religious and spiritual groups outside of Christianity that have beliefs and ideas on these topics.
Unless of course your second sentence wasn’t meant to relate to your first.
I did kind of say that I was directing it at Christian theology. I am aware of various Pagan beliefs that contradict the Christian one.
Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
Because we are a more complex species.
We have a better ability to survive because of our social nature. We do not rely on instinct for survival, so we have a greater control.
We think abstractly. We can find meaning in things that other creatures cannot. This is best shown by our system of language. No other species develops language like we do. Sure, we can teach primates language, but they have to be taught first. I guess, in a sense, so do we, but we, as humans, developed language before we even used it, or rather, it developed as it was used.
Of course, without a good definition of better, we can’t really go anywhere with this.
But, yes, in your sense it is a bit arrogant, but many people probably think this anyway. I’d venture to say you’re in denial or lying if you don’t, because I see very few people who live outside of any society.
Good point, but answer me this. A pig has been proven to be as intelligent as a human 3 year old child. So it would probably win against a three year old in a battle of survival... and yet the 3 year old has a soul and the animal no?
Maybe instict wise, but humans are the only animals that can think and come up with complex ideas.
Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
Because we are a more complex species.
We have a better ability to survive because of our social nature. We do not rely on instinct for survival, so we have a greater control.
We think abstractly. We can find meaning in things that other creatures cannot. This is best shown by our system of language. No other species develops language like we do. Sure, we can teach primates language, but they have to be taught first. I guess, in a sense, so do we, but we, as humans, developed language before we even used it, or rather, it developed as it was used.
Of course, without a good definition of better, we can’t really go anywhere with this.
But, yes, in your sense it is a bit arrogant, but many people probably think this anyway. I’d venture to say you’re in denial or lying if you don’t, because I see very few people who live outside of any society.
Good point, but answer me this. A pig has been proven to be as intelligent as a human 3 year old child. So it would probably win against a three year old in a battle of survival... and yet the 3 year old has a soul and the animal no?
Maybe instict wise, but humans are the only animals that can think and come up with complex ideas.
I have yet to see a 3 year old come up with complex ideas.
Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
Because we are a more complex species.
We have a better ability to survive because of our social nature. We do not rely on instinct for survival, so we have a greater control.
We think abstractly. We can find meaning in things that other creatures cannot. This is best shown by our system of language. No other species develops language like we do. Sure, we can teach primates language, but they have to be taught first. I guess, in a sense, so do we, but we, as humans, developed language before we even used it, or rather, it developed as it was used.
Of course, without a good definition of better, we can’t really go anywhere with this.
But, yes, in your sense it is a bit arrogant, but many people probably think this anyway. I’d venture to say you’re in denial or lying if you don’t, because I see very few people who live outside of any society.
Good point, but answer me this. A pig has been proven to be as intelligent as a human 3 year old child. So it would probably win against a three year old in a battle of survival... and yet the 3 year old has a soul and the animal no?
Maybe instict wise, but humans are the only animals that can think and come up with complex ideas.
I have yet to see a 3 year old come up with complex ideas.
I know but when we develop we can, there is no animal that can think no matter what age, they can learn things by chance but cannot reason
Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
Because we are a more complex species.
We have a better ability to survive because of our social nature. We do not rely on instinct for survival, so we have a greater control.
We think abstractly. We can find meaning in things that other creatures cannot. This is best shown by our system of language. No other species develops language like we do. Sure, we can teach primates language, but they have to be taught first. I guess, in a sense, so do we, but we, as humans, developed language before we even used it, or rather, it developed as it was used.
Of course, without a good definition of better, we can’t really go anywhere with this.
But, yes, in your sense it is a bit arrogant, but many people probably think this anyway. I’d venture to say you’re in denial or lying if you don’t, because I see very few people who live outside of any society.
Good point, but answer me this. A pig has been proven to be as intelligent as a human 3 year old child. So it would probably win against a three year old in a battle of survival... and yet the 3 year old has a soul and the animal no?
Maybe instict wise, but humans are the only animals that can think and come up with complex ideas.
I have yet to see a 3 year old come up with complex ideas.
I know but when we develop we can, there is no animal that can think no matter what age, they can learn things by chance but cannot reason
I already used up all my philosophical thinking in the beggining of this thread, can you read it from start to finish please, then you can see my thinking. Right now I think i’m wandering away from my strain of thought
Haylias wrote:
Atheist. You don’t need a deity to have a higher purpose by the way, you don’t even need one.
Thats not what i’m trying to get at really
Then re-iterate.
Sorry if this post seems a little thrown out:
I never even said that you need a DIETY for a higher purpose but you definitly can’t if everything is JUST energy and mass randomly coming together once in a while to create organisms that evolve intill they can think(well, you beleive thinking is an illusion).
Okay, I gotcha. But why do you need a higher purpose? Does that not seem somewhat arrogant?
No, it doesn’t.
Giving something purpose is a step in giving something meaning, which is a staple of our species.
So, if someone feels more content in having a purpose, it isn’t arrogance so much as an understanding.
Not to say it can’t somehow lead to arrogance, but there is no causality.
I was going on the fact that a divine purpose undoubtedly was invented to make humans feel important and of consequence in the Universe. Also it seems arrogant that (christian theology) all non-human animals have no souls and do not ascend to a heaven of some sort. What makes humans far more valuable and more important on a cosmic scale than say, a pig?
Because we are a more complex species.
We have a better ability to survive because of our social nature. We do not rely on instinct for survival, so we have a greater control.
We think abstractly. We can find meaning in things that other creatures cannot. This is best shown by our system of language. No other species develops language like we do. Sure, we can teach primates language, but they have to be taught first. I guess, in a sense, so do we, but we, as humans, developed language before we even used it, or rather, it developed as it was used.
Of course, without a good definition of better, we can’t really go anywhere with this.
But, yes, in your sense it is a bit arrogant, but many people probably think this anyway. I’d venture to say you’re in denial or lying if you don’t, because I see very few people who live outside of any society.
Good point, but answer me this. A pig has been proven to be as intelligent as a human 3 year old child. So it would probably win against a three year old in a battle of survival... and yet the 3 year old has a soul and the animal no?
Maybe instict wise, but humans are the only animals that can think and come up with complex ideas.
I have yet to see a 3 year old come up with complex ideas.
I know but when we develop we can, there is no animal that can think no matter what age, they can learn things by chance but cannot reason
I call bullshit.
I can’t think strait today, I have a fever 101.8 so its hard to think properly
KingBoo reading this pisses me off because you never give a reason for anything you say all you say is “Oh I can’t believe this” or “It must have a reason for the way it is” some things really are just spectacular accidents. Humans think they’re the center of the universe because of there highly developed brains, but just because the brain is complex doesn’t mean it has any more divine purpose than anything else. Ants can lift 20 times their weight, do you not look upon this feat of strength as evidence that they are divinely chosen as the center of the universe?
The problem is people think that because life exists it must have some godly significance or it wouldn’t be so abundant on Earth. But you just look at every other dead planet in the solar system and it really doesn’t seem this way. The only reason Earth seems special is because life had to develop somewhere, if we developed on Mars for instance we would chose that as the sacred planet. Besides, life on earth seems like more of a struggle for existance or a free for all killfest than something beautiful that god made to make the universe seem pretty.
Also, you have Cell in your avatar.
__________________
Last edited 09 Feb 2009 07:20 pm by Shaun of the Living
Sean of the Living wrote:
KingBoo reading this pisses me off because you never give a reason for anything you say all you say is “Oh I can’t believe this” or “It must have a reason for the way it is” some things really are just spectacular accidents. Humans think they’re the center of the universe because of there highly developed brains, but just because the brain is complex doesn’t mean it has any more divine purpose than anything else. Ants can lift 20 times their weight, do you not look upon this feat of strength as evidence that they are divinely chosen as the center of the universe?
The problem is people think that because life exists it must have some godly significance or it wouldn’t be so abundant on Earth. But you just look at every other dead planet in the solar system and it really doesn’t seem this way. The only reason Earth seems special is because life had to develop somewhere, if we developed on Mars for instance we would chose that as the sacred planet. Besides, life on earth seems like more of a struggle for existance or a free for all killfest than something beautiful that god made to make the universe seem pretty.
Also, you have Cell in your avatar.
Read the begginging of this thread. And there is no proof to my philosophy, its just a philosophy. And I never have said anything about a sacred planet, i’m not relegious, I just beleive in God. reading your post really pisses me of because you just assume i’m religious and practically make up what I beleive just because I beleive in a god. If you read the first page of this thread you’d see what I mean.
Also, you have a gay picture of James Bond in your avatar.
Sean of the Living wrote:
KingBoo reading this pisses me off because you never give a reason for anything you say all you say is “Oh I can’t believe this” or “It must have a reason for the way it is” some things really are just spectacular accidents. Humans think they’re the center of the universe because of there highly developed brains, but just because the brain is complex doesn’t mean it has any more divine purpose than anything else. Ants can lift 20 times their weight, do you not look upon this feat of strength as evidence that they are divinely chosen as the center of the universe?
The problem is people think that because life exists it must have some godly significance or it wouldn’t be so abundant on Earth. But you just look at every other dead planet in the solar system and it really doesn’t seem this way. The only reason Earth seems special is because life had to develop somewhere, if we developed on Mars for instance we would chose that as the sacred planet. Besides, life on earth seems like more of a struggle for existance or a free for all killfest than something beautiful that god made to make the universe seem pretty.
Also, you have Cell in your avatar.
Read the begginging of this thread. And there is no proof to my philosophy, its just a philosophy. And I never have said anything about a sacred planet, i’m not relegious, I just beleive in God. reading your post really pisses me of because you just assume i’m religious and practically make up what I beleive just because I beleive in a god. If you read the first page of this thread you’d see what I mean.
Also, you have a gay picture of James Bond in your avatar.
It’s Chris Hansen, faggot, and he is the epitome of ownage.
__________________
Last edited 17 Feb 2009 06:21 am by Shaun of the Living
Sean of the Living wrote:
KingBoo reading this pisses me off because you never give a reason for anything you say all you say is “Oh I can’t believe this” or “It must have a reason for the way it is” some things really are just spectacular accidents. Humans think they’re the center of the universe because of there highly developed brains, but just because the brain is complex doesn’t mean it has any more divine purpose than anything else. Ants can lift 20 times their weight, do you not look upon this feat of strength as evidence that they are divinely chosen as the center of the universe?
The problem is people think that because life exists it must have some godly significance or it wouldn’t be so abundant on Earth. But you just look at every other dead planet in the solar system and it really doesn’t seem this way. The only reason Earth seems special is because life had to develop somewhere, if we developed on Mars for instance we would chose that as the sacred planet. Besides, life on earth seems like more of a struggle for existance or a free for all killfest than something beautiful that god made to make the universe seem pretty.
Also, you have Cell in your avatar.
Read the begginging of this thread. And there is no proof to my philosophy, its just a philosophy. And I never have said anything about a sacred planet, i’m not relegious, I just beleive in God. reading your post really pisses me of because you just assume i’m religious and practically make up what I beleive just because I beleive in a god. If you read the first page of this thread you’d see what I mean.
Also, you have a gay picture of James Bond in your avatar.
It’s Chris Hansen, faggot, and he is the epitome of ownage.
Whatever, I don’t know who that is so I can’t say. But you have no clue as to what I beleive so just shut up about it.
No species on Earth has a brain as advanced as ours. Well, that’s true. But you’re looking at it from a subjective human perspective that often wants to feel important. Sure we have amazing brains, who is to say that ability is any more amazing than bacteria being able to reproduce every 20 minutes, or a peregrine falcon having super-vision and being able to fly at 300km/h without machines to assist it, deep sea fish living with tonnes and tonnes of water pressure beating down on them in total darkness, cockroaches living for days with their head chopped off, ants lifting 20 times their own weight or anything else that humans can’t do on their own.
In short, you have no reason to prove that our abilities are any more special than the talents of other species and therefore we cannot claim to have a superior purpose in the universe that is above that of all the other animals.
(And no, morally I’m not someone who cares more about animals than I do about people. I don’t care about the welfare of most species of other animals at all, really, unless our survival is reliant on theirs. I’m just saying, you can’t say what’s 'better' and what isn’t)
King Boo wrote:
Whatever, I don’t know who that is so I can’t say. But you have no clue as to what I beleive so just shut up about it.
And you have no clue who he is, so I ask, shut your fucking trap.
__________________
Last edited 03 Apr 2009 03:37 am by Shaun of the Living
Shaun of the Living wrote:
No species on Earth has a brain as advanced as ours. Well, that’s true. But you’re looking at it from a subjective human perspective that often wants to feel important. Sure we have amazing brains, who is to say that ability is any more amazing than bacteria being able to reproduce every 20 minutes, or a peregrine falcon having super-vision and being able to fly at 300km/h without machines to assist it, deep sea fish living with tonnes and tonnes of water pressure beating down on them in total darkness, cockroaches living for days with their head chopped off, ants lifting 20 times their own weight or anything else that humans can’t do on their own.
In short, you have no reason to prove that our abilities are any more special than the talents of other species and therefore we cannot claim to have a superior purpose in the universe that is above that of all the other animals.
(And no, morally I’m not someone who cares more about animals than I do about people. I don’t care about the welfare of most species of other animals at all, really, unless our survival is reliant on theirs. I’m just saying, you can’t say what’s 'better' and what isn’t)
King Boo wrote:
Whatever, I don’t know who that is so I can’t say. But you have no clue as to what I beleive so just shut up about it.
And you have no clue who he is, so I ask, shut your fucking trap.
We are billions of times more complex than a single celled organism. WTF are you talking about.
King Boo wrote:
We are billions of times more complex than a single celled organism. WTF are you talking about.
I didn’t say we aren’t more complex. I’m saying we’re not 'superior' organisms because superiority is subjective. Complexity and superiority are not the same thing.
__________________
Last edited 05 Apr 2009 07:38 pm by Shaun of the Living
