You cannot know gods plan.

RageOverdose wrote: I base this off the FAE (Fundamental Attribution Error), where people tend to explain things others do based upon personality rather than situation. People tend to get upset when they just think someone is lazy, stupid, or hateful, instead of seeing it for what it really may be. Understanding something, basically a situation, can remove any sort of bias. As you already stated, people who are angry or upset in any manner tend to say what they really are thinking and not what they should or feel they should. They can also make baseless judgments or bias conclusions.

You, however, have said you already don’t do this, so I won’t preach understanding to you anymore.

I think you have confused the word understanding, and accepting. I understand religion, and I recognized the dogma, that religion pushes forward as the truth.

RageOverdose wrote: Escapists are immature? I never thought that, I just figured they couldn’t find any solace in the actual world and escape with whatever method to find peace.
But I agree with you, religion can cause problems because of how people won’t think for themselves, but it isn’t just religion that will do it. PETA is arguably another example of sheep being herded.
Insulting people is just something I’d rather not do. I can still tell people the truth (you’re too fat to be healthy: you’re just taking the word of this guy without question: you’re too ignorant to make a good judgment), and while it can offend them just as easily as any insult, it is usually just because they can’t accept the truth or don’t want to.

It’s the dogma in religion and groups like PETA that are the problem.
Wow they were offended, that means you insulted them, what, I though you don’t insult people.

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

Kurt Donald Cobain wrote:

Kurt Donald Cobain wrote: Apperently there are dice in the Bible that makes you know God’s will.

Look up AZsuperman’s Bible Quiz. It’s in there.

^

READ THIS ^^^^^

There is a superman bible? Wow, there are some hard core fans out there..

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

Gplex wrote: There is a superman bible? Wow, there are some hard core fans out there..

No AZSuperman is a user on Youtube. He has a Bible quiz. There is dice(This is in the BIBLE lol) that let you know God’s will apperently. Check it out.

double post

I’ve already miss 3 trains to my gym today, I should go... I might (probably not) check out AZSuperman later

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

Gplex wrote:
I think you have confused the word understanding, and accepting. I understand religion, and I recognized the dogma, that religion pushes forward as the truth.

No, you did. I didn’t mean accepting. I don’t accept someone making illogical decisions, and I don’t accept terrorism. I can understand something just fine and not get angry at it but not like it or agree with it all the same.

Gplex wrote: It’s the dogma in religion and groups like PETA that are the problem.
Wow they were offended, that means you insulted them, what, I though you don’t insult people.

I agree.

And I’m talking about intentional insults versus unintentional. When I’m telling people the truth, I’m not meaning to insult them, but they do get insulted, but it’s usually just misdirected anger at me anyway, they’re really just mad they have to accept a truth.

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RageOverdose wrote:

Gplex wrote:
I think you have confused the word understanding, and accepting. I understand religion, and I recognized the dogma, that religion pushes forward as the truth.

No, you did. I didn’t mean accepting. I don’t accept someone making illogical decisions, and I don’t accept terrorism. I can understand something just fine and not get angry at it but not like it or agree with it all the same.

Gplex wrote: It’s the dogma in religion and groups like PETA that are the problem.
Wow they were offended, that means you insulted them, what, I though you don’t insult people.

I agree.
And I’m talking about intentional insults versus unintentional. When I’m telling people the truth, I’m not meaning to insult them, but they do get insulted, but it’s usually just misdirected anger at me anyway, they’re really just mad they have to accept a truth.

I understand, that’s why I am annoyed.
Well I can’t, as soon as I understand someone position, I automatically judge it without thinking. For me it’s like not trying to think of an elephant.

Respect my religion, or I will be insulted. It’s a form of defense. Don’t say anything bad about my religion, or I will be insulted. You are not part of my religion; you are a insult to me.
This is clearly BS. I exercise my freedom to insult whoever I want. Anyone who doesn’t want me to exercise that right, is against basic human rights.

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

RageOverdose wrote:
Escapists are immature? I never thought that, I just figured they couldn’t find any solace in the actual world and escape with whatever method to find peace.

Pretending your problems don’t exist is willfully ignorant, yes. Unless you’re talking about adjusting your mindset so it doesn’t matter to you anymore or avoiding the problem, which is a different thing to what I was speaking about.

RageOverdose wrote:
But I agree with you, religion can cause problems because of how people won’t think for themselves, but it isn’t just religion that will do it. PETA is arguably another example of sheep being herded.

I disagree. I don’t believe in the idea of people being 'free thinkers' or 'sheep', I don’t use those terms. People have no free will, ultimately our feelings and our thoughts come from external forces over which we have no control. So we are all 'sheep' to our genes and the environment, in that sense.

To me, blaming someone for conforming to the norm or following someone else is a bit ad hominem. I don’t care if you’re part of the majority or a minority, what matters is who is right and who is wrong, and whether you’re being humane. Conformity has nothing to do with it.

RageOverdose wrote: Insulting people is just something I’d rather not do. I can still tell people the truth (you’re too fat to be healthy: you’re just taking the word of this guy without question: you’re too ignorant to make a good judgment), and while it can offend them just as easily as any insult, it is usually just because they can’t accept the truth or don’t want to.

Obesity is generally risky for your health, just like heroin addiction or playing video games for 40 hours straight. However, I don’t bother people who want to do those things because it’s their body that they’re dealing with and they have the right to do whatever they want with it so long as they’re not hurting anybody else.

The difference with religion is that it attacks the rights of others, such as women, atheists, pagans, homosexuals, blasphemers etc, which is why it’s a problem and, in my opinion, does not deserve to be respected.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not want to ban religion or forcefully make anyone give it up, because that would make me just as bad as religion or fascism itself. But when people use religion as an excuse to take away the rights of others that is unnacceptable. Most Christians do not truly follow the Bible and don’t stone people to death, so I’m not saying they’re much of a major threat, but rotten trees bear rotten fruit, which is why 'moderate Christians' often still have evil influence from the Bible in some of their actions, such as voting against gay rights, forcing Creationism into classrooms, etc. That’s where I have a problem. So, I aim not to stop Christianity by brute force or legal tyranny, but by educating people about it’s true nature.

Shaun of the Living wrote:
Pretending your problems don’t exist is willfully ignorant, yes. Unless you’re talking about adjusting your mindset so it doesn’t matter to you anymore or avoiding the problem, which is a different thing to what I was speaking about.

I would say pretending your problems don’t exist and changing your mindset so they don’t matter to be roughly equivalent. It’s not like in either case the problems are gone, but one just accepts them better, I guess. I don’t necessarily call that immature, I just think it’s a rather doomed way of life.

Shaun of the Living wrote: I disagree. I don’t believe in the idea of people being 'free thinkers' or 'sheep', I don’t use those terms. People have no free will, ultimately our feelings and our thoughts come from external forces over which we have no control. So we are all 'sheep' to our genes and the environment, in that sense.

But what you are saying is just a technicality. While it is true that individuals cannot control their own socialization, other people can, and you can socialize a human to be “free-willed." I do not agree that free will is an intrinsic human trait, but it can be given to us.

Shaun of the Living wrote: To me, blaming someone for conforming to the norm or following someone else is a bit ad hominem. I don’t care if you’re part of the majority or a minority, what matters is who is right and who is wrong, and whether you’re being humane. Conformity has nothing to do with it.

Just conforming can cause many problems. Just conforming is what leads to people doing stupid shit like taking rights away or killing others or making/accepting stupid decisions. I think that humans should be taught to make thoughtful decisions, not to just do something because that’s what people are doing. You say I’m being ad hominem, I say you are supporting jumping the bandwagon. Both are logical fallacies. And really, I don’t think I’m being ad hominem since I’m not attacking the arguer, but making the argument on someone.

Shaun of the Living wrote: Obesity is generally risky for your health, just like heroin addiction or playing video games for 40 hours straight. However, I don’t bother people who want to do those things because it’s their body that they’re dealing with and they have the right to do whatever they want with it so long as they’re not hurting anybody else.

The difference with religion is that it attacks the rights of others, such as women, atheists, pagans, homosexuals, blasphemers etc, which is why it’s a problem and, in my opinion, does not deserve to be respected.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not want to ban religion or forcefully make anyone give it up, because that would make me just as bad as religion or fascism itself. But when people use religion as an excuse to take away the rights of others that is unnacceptable. Most Christians do not truly follow the Bible and don’t stone people to death, so I’m not saying they’re much of a major threat, but rotten trees bear rotten fruit, which is why 'moderate Christians' often still have evil influence from the Bible in some of their actions, such as voting against gay rights, forcing Creationism into classrooms, etc. That’s where I have a problem. So, I aim not to stop Christianity by brute force or legal tyranny, but by educating people about it’s true nature.

I agree, that if someone wants to be obese, there isn’t anything I can rightfully do to stop them. It is their body and there is no general harm in a person being obese; in fact, I can’t think of a good reason except falling on someone.

But not all religion is like that. Most religion has no affect on the civilized world, and Buddhism is a very peaceful, and personal, religion. Still, I agree, there is a danger with modern Abrahamic religions and their tolerance for what has been looked down upon and condemned in their religion. I mean, can you really blame a person for hating homosexuality when, since birth, that’s what they were taught? It’s another example of your argument against free will, they didn’t choose it and they couldn’t stop it. However, I do believe they can change it, although admittedly, it’s harder to remove socialization than it is to cause it, and some cases probably dangerous. I like your way better actually.

Haruhi demands you join Anime United!

Gplex wrote:
I understand, that’s why I am annoyed.
Well I can’t, as soon as I understand someone position, I automatically judge it without thinking. For me it’s like not trying to think of an elephant.

I honestly have no idea what you mean, except that you’re annoyed.

Gplex wrote: Respect my religion, or I will be insulted. It’s a form of defense. Don’t say anything bad about my religion, or I will be insulted. You are not part of my religion; you are a insult to me.
This is clearly BS. I exercise my freedom to insult whoever I want. Anyone who doesn’t want me to exercise that right, is against basic human rights.

Well, I can’t disagree that you have the right to speak how you wish and I have no intention of taking it away from you, but that doesn’t mean I still agree that you should insult people willingly all the time.

Haruhi demands you join Anime United!

RageOverdose wrote:

Gplex wrote:
I understand, that’s why I am annoyed.
Well I can’t, as soon as I understand someone position, I automatically judge it without thinking. For me it’s like not trying to think of an elephant.

I honestly have no idea what you mean, except that you’re annoyed.

Gplex wrote: Respect my religion, or I will be insulted. It’s a form of defense. Don’t say anything bad about my religion, or I will be insulted. You are not part of my religion; you are a insult to me.
This is clearly BS. I exercise my freedom to insult whoever I want. Anyone who doesn’t want me to exercise that right, is against basic human rights.

Well, I can’t disagree that you have the right to speak how you wish and I have no intention of taking it away from you, but that doesn’t mean I still agree that you should insult people willingly all the time.

LOL

I think he means, that he insults positions he has deemed illogical, without explaining why they are illogical, from sheer frustration of those who do not follow his (as he sees a reasonable) path of logic.

Sorry gplex, this is a poor form of argument.

RageOverdose wrote:

Gplex wrote:
I understand, that’s why I am annoyed.
Well I can’t, as soon as I understand someone position, I automatically judge it without thinking. For me it’s like not trying to think of an elephant.

I honestly have no idea what you mean, except that you’re annoyed.

Gplex wrote: Respect my religion, or I will be insulted. It’s a form of defense. Don’t say anything bad about my religion, or I will be insulted. You are not part of my religion; you are a insult to me.
This is clearly BS. I exercise my freedom to insult whoever I want. Anyone who doesn’t want me to exercise that right, is against basic human rights.

Well, I can’t disagree that you have the right to speak how you wish and I have no intention of taking it away from you, but that doesn’t mean I still agree that you should insult people willingly all the time.

I can not control my thoughts.
Anyone who get insulted usually has something to hide, or doesn’t want to face the truth.

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

silverspirit2001 wrote: LOL
I think he means, that he insults positions he has deemed illogical, without explaining why they are illogical, from sheer frustration of those who do not follow his (as he sees a reasonable) path of logic.
Sorry gplex, this is a poor form of argument.

I know dam well you are not a atheist. This isn’t my argument. Rage has being trying to persuade me that you should “understand” religious beliefs, instead of insulting them. This is clearly means respect peoples religion, even though rage would object without giving a reason.
The bible is a Bronze Age superstitious book, written by primitive humans, who clearly had little understanding of the natural world. - All true, but this still will be taken as an insult.
Can you tell me how else I could say this without ‘insulting’ those who think the bible is perfect?
As I said before. Someone who takes words as an insult is a child, or a moron.

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

RageOverdose wrote: I would say pretending your problems don’t exist and changing your mindset so they don’t matter to be roughly equivalent. It’s not like in either case the problems are gone, but one just accepts them better, I guess. I don’t necessarily call that immature, I just think it’s a rather doomed way of life.

Problems are a creation of the mind. When your priorities change, so do your problems. There is a difference between becoming apathetic to something that previously bothered you and doing nothing about something you are secretly shitting yourself over. To me, that signifies an inability to plan ahead and deal wit the inevitable, but whatever.
But I guess 'mature' and 'immature' are vague adjectives that can cover a number of concepts, so yeah... this conversation doesn’t really bother me. What I was refering to in the first place was Christian/Muslim apoligists who pretend there are no verses promoting violence in the Bible and Quran, despite their obvious abundance.

RageOverdose wrote: But what you are saying is just a technicality. While it is true that individuals cannot control their own socialization, other people can, and you can socialize a human to be “free-willed." I do not agree that free will is an intrinsic human trait, but it can be given to us.

I wasn’t just talking about our social environment, I was saying free will doesn’t exist because everything we do is a response to something. These responses are dictated by what we feel will give us the most pleasure and let us avoid the most pain, and what we feel will give us the most pleasure and let us avoid the most pain is dictated by our instinct, emotions and cognitive reasoning, which we do not have control over. Instinct is innate, emotion is innate but influenced by experiences and circumstances and our cognitive reasoning develops and changes as external forces teach us and make us think in different ways.

RageOverdose wrote: Just conforming can cause many problems. Just conforming is what leads to people doing stupid shit like taking rights away or killing others or making/accepting stupid decisions.

It can also do good things like stopping people from commiting crime that hurts others, like murder and rape.

RageOverdose wrote: I think that humans should be taught to make thoughtful decisions, not to just do something because that’s what people are doing.

Just because you are following others does not mean it cannot be for a logical and carefully calculated reason.

RageOverdose wrote: You say I’m being ad hominem, I say you are supporting jumping the bandwagon. Both are logical fallacies. And really, I don’t think I’m being ad hominem since I’m not attacking the arguer, but making the argument on someone.

Implying people are wrong in their argument just because they follow the majority of others in their opinion is ad hominem. It has nothing to do with whether they’re right or wrong. Pretty much everyone in western countries accepts the theory of gravity, are you and I sheep because we follow almost everyone else in that respect?

I don’t support following the majority in all situations, nor do I support following a minority in all situations. I’m saying sometimes it can be a good thing for society, sometimes it isn’t, but overall whether a certain example of conformity is good or not depends on whether the argument being followed is right or wrong and that the demographic of people who accept it does not automatically validate or invalidate it.

John Wayne Gacy wasn’t conforming to social norms when he raped, tortured and murdered those 33 young boys, and that was clearly an evil act. On the other hand; so were the actions of the Nazi soldiers who slaughtered millions of innocent people and claimed to be “Just following orders”. What I’m trying to say is conformity can be a good as well as bad thing, and that you need to stop dealing in absolutes in this respect.

RageOverdose wrote: I agree, that if someone wants to be obese, there isn’t anything I can rightfully do to stop them. It is their body and there is no general harm in a person being obese; in fact, I can’t think of a good reason except falling on someone.

I know this is a bit off topic, but that’s still a pretty stupid reason. How often do you hear about a fat guy who tripped over on somebody and accidentally suffocated them to death?

RageOverdose wrote: Most religion has no affect on the civilized world

Islam seems to be threatening the freedom of the civillised world. Christian homophobia seems to be affecting the civilized world. Scientology and New Age religions seem to be scamming a lot of people out of their money in the civilized world.

True, most minor pagan religions aren’t causing many problems. But that’s why I don’t argue much against them, because they’re insignificant. Why would I argue against religions that aren’t much of a threat!?

RageOverdose wrote: and Buddhism is a very peaceful, and personal, religion

Buddhism promotes a kind of super-pacifism that isn’t always good for society. Sometimes people have to take an aggressive stand against evil rather than just sitting on their ass and expecting everyone to be nice.

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

Gplex wrote:

silverspirit2001 wrote: LOL
I think he means, that he insults positions he has deemed illogical, without explaining why they are illogical, from sheer frustration of those who do not follow his (as he sees a reasonable) path of logic.
Sorry gplex, this is a poor form of argument.

I know dam well you are not a atheist. This isn’t my argument. Rage has being trying to persuade me that you should “understand” religious beliefs, instead of insulting them. This is clearly means respect peoples religion, even though rage would object without giving a reason.
The bible is a Bronze Age superstitious book, written by primitive humans, who clearly had little understanding of the natural world. - All true, but this still will be taken as an insult.
Can you tell me how else I could say this without ‘insulting’ those who think the bible is perfect?
As I said before. Someone who takes words as an insult is a child, or a moron.

Lets just juxtaposition with this statement, earlier from this thread

Gplex wrote:
I understand, that’s why I am annoyed.
Well I can’t, as soon as I understand someone position, I automatically judge it without thinking. For me it’s like not trying to think of an elephant.

Respect my religion, or I will be insulted. It’s a form of defense. Don’t say anything bad about my religion, or I will be insulted. You are not part of my religion; you are a insult to me.
This is clearly BS. I exercise my freedom to insult whoever I want. Anyone who doesn’t want me to exercise that right, is against basic human rights.

Well, again I will state I AM AN ATHEIST .
The fact you do not want to accept that I am is a symptom of everything wrong with your position gplex. My position of being an atheist has everything to do with my situation, having to question my basis of reality. Show me where I have made any position I have taken, that shows me to be even remotely theistic. I challenge people on the basis of subtle questioning mostly, questions pointing to logical discrepancies in their argument rather than direct confrontation. I also tend to keep a neutral tone, as I find it more conducive to debate and changing someone’s opinion, and I cannot rely on my emotions.

You fail to understand that one basic simple fact. You may have arrived at atheism from a cool logical perspective, but now, all your arguments descend into the emotive, rather than logical.

That you refuse to see me as an atheist, is because I disagreed with one of your principles, and your argument is from emotion to dismiss my views, because my premises and how I talk feels wrong to you. The very thing which religious people do, because religion feels right to them. I will expand on this mater in the thread I started on the evolution of thought, when I discuss what is faith and how evolution has a mechanism to explain faith.

And that’s the point - you must challenge anyone who disputes your view because it upsets you, and you cannot understand why they have that position. And that means you cannot offer any positive arguments for your atheism to sway their view, because that takes a calm reflection of what they say, and using their own emotive logic to challenge their position.

And in a (deliberate) parallel to the religious sentiment, hate the sin, not the sinner - hate the belief, not the believer. After all, someday the believer could be “saved”.

Hopefully, at the end of evolution of thought, you will understand how religion evolved, and also give me a very public apology for doubting my atheism.

silverspirit2001 wrote: Well, again I will state I AM AN ATHEIST .
The fact you do not want to accept that I am is a symptom of everything wrong with your position gplex. My position of being an atheist has everything to do with my situation, having to question my basis of reality. Show me where I have made any position I have taken, that shows me to be even remotely theistic. I challenge people on the basis of subtle questioning mostly, questions pointing to logical discrepancies in their argument rather than direct confrontation. I also tend to keep a neutral tone, as I find it more conducive to debate and changing someone’s opinion, and I cannot rely on my emotions.

You are clearly not an atheist. I don’t know why you try and pretend.
Every post you make towards me, hints that you think atheism is illogical, eg everything wrong with my position, and calling it a symptom (my position is atheism).

silverspirit2001 wrote: You fail to understand that one basic simple fact. You may have arrived at atheism from a cool logical perspective, but now, all your arguments descend into the emotive, rather than logical.

This is an unfounded claim. Quote me claiming any position, from only an emotional stand point. Eg, I believe it because it feels good.

silverspirit2001 wrote: That you refuse to see me as an atheist, is because I disagreed with one of your principles, and your argument is from emotion to dismiss my views, because my premises and how I talk feels wrong to you. The very thing which religious people do, because religion feels right to them. I will expand on this mater in the thread I started on the evolution of thought, when I discuss what is faith and how evolution has a mechanism to explain faith.

Either you are an atheist, one of the most ignorant I have met, or you are an ignorant theist pretending to be a atheist.

silverspirit2001 wrote: And that’s the point - you must challenge anyone who disputes your view because it upsets you, and you cannot understand why they have that position. And that means you cannot offer any positive arguments for your atheism to sway their view, because that takes a calm reflection of what they say, and using their own emotive logic to challenge their position.

Wrong. I like to know the truth, and it upsets me when I see someone spreading disinformation. My motive may be emotional, as every humans motives for doing anything is emotional, but physical evidence and reasoned logic has always lead me to my positions.

silverspirit2001 wrote: And in a (deliberate) parallel to the religious sentiment, hate the sin, not the sinner - hate the belief, not the believer. After all, someday the believer could be “saved”.

Wrong again. I like the truth, I hate anyone who purposely spreads disinformation. Eg. the discovery institute.

silverspirit2001 wrote: Hopefully, at the end of evolution of thought, you will understand how religion evolved, and also give me a very public apology for doubting my atheism.

Wow understanding evolution equals atheism; you have no idea what you are talking about.

Cid wrote: You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews

Really gplex - show me one post that hints that I think atheism is illogical.

Now, to the statement

The fact you do not want to accept that I am is a symptom of everything wrong with your position gplex. This I contend is a symptom of you being an arguement poor atheist - does that clear it up for you. You offer barbed comments, not reasoned debate, you endlessly bash the bible, hinting that every believer is a idiot and say their is no evidence for god. Fine, I am happy if you feel that is the best way to advocate your atheism. And frankly, it is effective as a boat made of soap.

But here is the difference between me and you gplex. Yes the bible is illogical, which I sometimes quote for support, yes their is no physical evidence for god. But I have not seen you make one argument from any other source or promote a positive view of atheism .

Now my arguments for people to become atheist, is based of defining and explaining concepts of the religious as part of the evolution of the mind, help people understand why they have religious impulses, why morality is a positive concept in evolution, its importance of its development for human society and easily understood mechanism for its development.
I try to lead people to understand that they don’t have a need for a god to explain anything, and the theory of mind explains the development of “faith”.

I mean, do you think all theists believe in god, so they avoid being burned in hell? Do you think all theists approve of the behaviour of god in the old testament? All christians believe gays should be stoned?
The truth is, they find some support in the god concept (which I will demonstrate why in the other thread), which allows them to bastardize their faith, until it means what they feel it should mean.

And that’s one of religions strengths, to every believer, what they believe FEELS true. Saying you are a nutjob, or your book is pure shite, has little effect on their feelings except to piss them off.


I am with Hitchens on this point, religions are dangerous, and in my own small way, try to contribute to killing the beast.

But this is crucial, you just declaim religion, I show that what they feel is a evolutionary impulse that inspired their religious feelings. The impulse is an important part of the human psyche, but in those of faith has led to an incorrect conclusion of the ordering of the universe.
By showing what their faith is and why it feels correct even in this modern day I hope will be a powerful tool.

And that is the point, I look for new tools, rather than use old tools which have not been proved effective at my goal in spreading atheism and rational thought.

And you gplex think only your way is the correct way, and your logical models are correct. The fact that many sciences throws new light on the situation such as evolutionary psychology, it throws new facts which can only improve our arguments, you are stuck like the Rush Limbaugh of the atheist world.

Nice to see that you are back-pedalling a bit, now I could be the most ignorant atheist you have met, instead of a theist.

Or just maybe you are absolutely wrong, I am an atheist trying to do something positive in a new way, and you just can not see it, because you have not bothered to look for the new questions atheists should be asking, and new ways to explain our position to the theists.

After all, why come to a board about religion, unless you want to proclaim your atheism and evidence, to get rid of this corruption we call religion?