riptorn311 wrote:
Let me ask you pola(when you get time)...Does god know how people turn out in the end?
In the end. Like end of that persons life??
yes
I would say yes and no. While some people make drastic changes in thier life and even pull a 180. Some stay the exact same either good or bad. Staying how we are is up to us. I woulnt say god knows but i wouldnt say god doenst.
Lets say this. If it is possible to travel into the future then everything that we have ever done has already happend. And god would know how we trun out since we would just be reinacting everything we have already done before.
But he is supposed to be the Alpha and the Omega and omniscient.
Well i sort of messed up on the future thing. Since the act of looking at the future can drasticly change the present. God looks into the future god can give warrning. The warrnings are in the bible. these warrning can drastily change what would of or actualy did sort of happend.
riptorn311 wrote:
Let me ask you pola(when you get time)...Does god know how people turn out in the end?
In the end. Like end of that persons life??
yes
I would say yes and no. While some people make drastic changes in thier life and even pull a 180. Some stay the exact same either good or bad. Staying how we are is up to us. I woulnt say god knows but i wouldnt say god doenst.
Lets say this. If it is possible to travel into the future then everything that we have ever done has already happend. And god would know how we trun out since we would just be reinacting everything we have already done before.
But he is supposed to be the Alpha and the Omega and omniscient.
Well i sort of messed up on the future thing. Since the act of looking at the future can drasticly change the present. God looks into the future god can give warrning. The warrnings are in the bible. these warrning can drastily change what would of or actualy did sort of happend.
So we could stop the Anti Christ if we shot him or something?
Kind of like a Scrooge’s future scenario? By that I mean. The warnings are a shadow of things that MAY be not the things that WILL be. Correct?
riptorn311 wrote:
Let me ask you pola(when you get time)...Does god know how people turn out in the end?
In the end. Like end of that persons life??
yes
I would say yes and no. While some people make drastic changes in thier life and even pull a 180. Some stay the exact same either good or bad. Staying how we are is up to us. I woulnt say god knows but i wouldnt say god doenst.
Lets say this. If it is possible to travel into the future then everything that we have ever done has already happend. And god would know how we trun out since we would just be reinacting everything we have already done before.
But he is supposed to be the Alpha and the Omega and omniscient.
Well i sort of messed up on the future thing. Since the act of looking at the future can drasticly change the present. God looks into the future god can give warrning. The warrnings are in the bible. these warrning can drastily change what would of or actualy did sort of happend.
So we could stop the Anti Christ if we shot him or something?
Kind of like a Scrooge’s future scenario? By that I mean. The warnings are a shadow of things that MAY be not the things that WILL be. Correct?
Yeah in a big way yes.
The bible does explains what the anti christ will be like. Not what people whant to believe he will be like that seems to be a commmon theam.
riptorn311 wrote:
Let me ask you pola(when you get time)...Does god know how people turn out in the end?
In the end. Like end of that persons life??
yes
I would say yes and no. While some people make drastic changes in thier life and even pull a 180. Some stay the exact same either good or bad. Staying how we are is up to us. I woulnt say god knows but i wouldnt say god doenst.
Lets say this. If it is possible to travel into the future then everything that we have ever done has already happend. And god would know how we trun out since we would just be reinacting everything we have already done before.
But he is supposed to be the Alpha and the Omega and omniscient.
Well i sort of messed up on the future thing. Since the act of looking at the future can drasticly change the present. God looks into the future god can give warrning. The warrnings are in the bible. these warrning can drastily change what would of or actualy did sort of happend.
So we could stop the Anti Christ if we shot him or something?
Kind of like a Scrooge’s future scenario? By that I mean. The warnings are a shadow of things that MAY be not the things that WILL be. Correct?
Yeah in a big way yes.
The bible does explains what the anti christ will be like. Not what people whant to believe he will be like that seems to be a commmon theam.
Fail again....It’s preordained that the antichrist will have rule for a while...Can’t stop what is preordained...Unless you don’t believe what is in Revelation...
__________________
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts
riptorn311 wrote:
Let me ask you pola(when you get time)...Does god know how people turn out in the end?
In the end. Like end of that persons life??
yes
I would say yes and no. While some people make drastic changes in thier life and even pull a 180. Some stay the exact same either good or bad. Staying how we are is up to us. I woulnt say god knows but i wouldnt say god doenst.
Lets say this. If it is possible to travel into the future then everything that we have ever done has already happend. And god would know how we trun out since we would just be reinacting everything we have already done before.
But he is supposed to be the Alpha and the Omega and omniscient.
Well i sort of messed up on the future thing. Since the act of looking at the future can drasticly change the present. God looks into the future god can give warrning. The warrnings are in the bible. these warrning can drastily change what would of or actualy did sort of happend.
So we could stop the Anti Christ if we shot him or something?
Kind of like a Scrooge’s future scenario? By that I mean. The warnings are a shadow of things that MAY be not the things that WILL be. Correct?
Yeah in a big way yes.
The bible does explains what the anti christ will be like. Not what people whant to believe he will be like that seems to be a commmon theam.
Ah I see. Well this looks like a very complex time paradox situation.
It’s like this:
If you time travel and observe and write down everything I did during a week later than the present, and you come back and give me the paper and I read it, would I still be doing those things? Even though you should have come back to tell me even during the week before you wrote this stuff down?
riptorn311 wrote:
Let me ask you pola(when you get time)...Does god know how people turn out in the end?
In the end. Like end of that persons life??
yes
I would say yes and no. While some people make drastic changes in thier life and even pull a 180. Some stay the exact same either good or bad. Staying how we are is up to us. I woulnt say god knows but i wouldnt say god doenst.
Lets say this. If it is possible to travel into the future then everything that we have ever done has already happend. And god would know how we trun out since we would just be reinacting everything we have already done before.
But he is supposed to be the Alpha and the Omega and omniscient.
Well i sort of messed up on the future thing. Since the act of looking at the future can drasticly change the present. God looks into the future god can give warrning. The warrnings are in the bible. these warrning can drastily change what would of or actualy did sort of happend.
So we could stop the Anti Christ if we shot him or something?
Kind of like a Scrooge’s future scenario? By that I mean. The warnings are a shadow of things that MAY be not the things that WILL be. Correct?
Yeah in a big way yes.
The bible does explains what the anti christ will be like. Not what people whant to believe he will be like that seems to be a commmon theam.
Ah I see. Well this looks like a very complex time paradox situation.
It’s like this:
If you time travel and observe and write down everything I did during a week later than the present, and you come back and give me the paper and I read it, would I still be doing those things? Even though you should have come back to tell me even during the week before you wrote this stuff down?
Time type stuff like this is confusing >.>
Thought I said something like that on the last post of the last page. Told ya it’d get me fucked. xD
Modena wrote:
IMO only a fool would try to reason wit faith.
It’s foolish to HAVE faith, but most people, no matter how irrational, have SOME kind of logic inside them that can be appealed to and strengthened. It just takes a lot more persuasion (or different types of arguments) for some people than it would for others, I guess.
pola wrote:
I would say yes and no. While some people make drastic changes in thier life and even pull a 180. Some stay the exact same either good or bad. Staying how we are is up to us. I woulnt say god knows but i wouldnt say god doenst.
Lets say this. If it is possible to travel into the future then everything that we have ever done has already happend. And god would know how we trun out since we would just be reinacting everything we have already done before.
(memebers: Prepare for tl;dr freewill argument that I’ve said a million times before, but must say again: )
Not only do omnipotence and omniscence contradict each other in terms of free will and destiny, there’s no real evidence that free will actually exists. It’s bad psychology. All behaviour has a cause; our thoughts. Our thoughts, basically, are our instincts, emotions and cognitive abilities. These are determined by our experiences and genes, which are due to external factors beyond our control. Even if we feel like we’re controlling our thoughts by say... giving up smoking despite addiction, some external force gave us the motivation to do it, to change our thoughts, and if we didn’t have that motivation we wouldn’t have done it, therefore the motivation caused the change of behaviour.
If humans have free will why do people have predictable personalities? Why does advertising boost sales? Why does drug addiction affect people? Why does brainwashing affect people? Free will must be completely FREE of influence or else it’s not really 'free' is it?
The fact that God even has the CAPABILITY to see into the future means it must be predestined or else he wouldn’t have the abilitiy to do forsee it, whether he actually does or not.
__________________
Last edited 14 Aug 2009 09:08 am by Shaun of the Living
Shaun of the Living I have faith. Faith that this universe is real.
pola what makes you sure that everything you have claimed about your god is true?
__________________
Cid wrote:
You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews
And if you self-righteous, hypocritical, and overly intolerant anti-religion bigots still insist on being against faith, then here’s one more thing for you:
And if you self-righteous, hypocritical, and overly intolerant anti-religion bigots still insist on being against faith, then here’s one more thing for you:
And if you self-righteous, hypocritical, and overly intolerant anti-religion bigots still insist on being against faith, then here’s one more thing for you:
And if you self-righteous, hypocritical, and overly intolerant anti-religion bigots still insist on being against faith, then here’s one more thing for you:
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts
And if you self-righteous, hypocritical, and overly intolerant anti-religion bigots still insist on being against faith, then here’s one more thing for you:
I like how you no one wants to debate “You can’t reason with faith”.
“Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer (faith base) that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer.” - Christopher Hitchens
__________________
Cid wrote:
You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews
And if you self-righteous, hypocritical, and overly intolerant anti-religion bigots still insist on being against faith, then here’s one more thing for you:
I like how you no one wants to debate “You can’t reason with faith”.
“Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer (faith base) that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer.” - Christopher Hitchens
So are you wanting us to debate your quote. Quotes dont give a solid meaning in religious debates. For every anti religios quote you have i have a pro religion quote. It is best to stay away from quotes.
asdhjd wrote:
So are you wanting us to debate your quote. Quotes dont give a solid meaning in religious debates. For every anti religios quote you have i have a pro religion quote. It is best to stay away from quotes.
“solid meaning”... what? You can’t reason with faith, it’s a fact. If you have absolute blind faith, you cannot be reasoned with. You may have religious quotes you can send back to me, but I am confident I could pick each and every one of those quotes apart, and reveal just how stupid they really are.
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Gplex wrote:
Shaun of the Living I have faith. Faith that this universe is real.
I’ll address this sometime, but at the moment I’m a bit busy for long responses.
I have faith that at the moment, my senses are reporting this universe accurately to my mind, which is the only thing that I have 100% belief actually exist.
__________________
Cid wrote:
You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews
Shaun of the Living wrote:
Not only do omnipotence and omniscence contradict each other in terms of free will and destiny, there’s no real evidence that free will actually exists. It’s bad psychology. All behaviour has a cause; our thoughts. Our thoughts, basically, are our instincts, emotions and cognitive abilities. These are determined by our experiences and genes, which are due to external factors beyond our control. Even if we feel like we’re controlling our thoughts by say... giving up smoking despite addiction, some external force gave us the motivation to do it, to change our thoughts, and if we didn’t have that motivation we wouldn’t have done it, therefore the motivation caused the change of behaviour.
If humans have free will why do people have predictable personalities? Why does advertising boost sales? Why does drug addiction affect people? Why does brainwashing affect people? Free will must be completely FREE of influence or else it’s not really 'free' is it?
The fact that God even has the CAPABILITY to see into the future means it must be predestined or else he wouldn’t have the abilitiy to do forsee it, whether he actually does or not.
Humans have the capability to teach “free will." It doesn’t come with the package.
You are right, without socialization we are weak as a species. Without environment, we are vegetables. We require external forces to create our psychology.
However, free will doesn’t exist by technicality, but it can still “exist." You just have to teach it. We CAN control our synapses. If not for that, we wouldn’t be able to program neural-computer interfaces like we’ve begun to do.
We want to have free will.
All current data indicates that we do not have free will.
But at the end of the day there is no clear answer. For now we will have to wait and see what research on the subject can produce.
__________________
Cid wrote:
You flame religions and its followers without even considering their side of the story. You’re not much different from Hitler with his extermination of the jews
