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Samurais vs Knights

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[Quote] #61
14 Jul 2006 04:41 pm
Osama Binlama
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Bullets are not full lead there usally full metal jack(lead core and copper around it) have you ever seen copper wire you can bend it with your hands and lead you can step on it and crush it. Let me point out that samauri sword have 10 - 12 inch Handle blade 26-30 inch European 2 Handed 12 - 18 inch blade 35-45 inch which increases the volecity of eropean sword by 2 or 3 times.
2x wieght = twice as much dameage
2x Volecity = Qaudriple as much damage. Two handed sword where used instead of broad swords because sheilds where no longer needed bnecause plate armor became inpenitrable to smaller swords. Two handed sword where use because of the fact that they could damage plate armor with a very hard swing.So knights did not have to exert so much force to get through armor axes, hammers, And maces where used becouse although hammers could not get through the armor they could break bones under it. Maces are a combination ofaxes and hammers they blugeon and pierce so cthey where the most efetive out thease 3 weapons. A axes force is focused on a 5 inch blade instead of a 30-45 inch blade. Its that samuri and knight never really fought and if they did theres no record. And knights swords cant wiegh 15 pounds with out being an inch thick.A knights broad sword also wieghed only 3.5 lb tops. a long sword or 1-1/2hand sowd might wiegh 4 or 5 lb if it was more than 4 feet and mesaum replicas is exact replicas(as its name states) of swords in muesams wieght and all I’ve been geting their magazines samuri swords are shrp but some one had much much sharper weapons which steel weapons still can not be made sharper than. Native americans where experts with bows and spears plus they knew how some knew how to make steel but some still preferd their less durable but 4 or 5 times sharper than samuri sword hardend flint knives but do you think they could get through plate steel. NO. The would break no matter how sharp.If steel was no heat treated it would no bend good and would break. That would be a samuri sword and European swords were layerd too. Arnt some of you getting of subject talking about butcher knive and cleavers Note cleavers only wiegh .5-1.5 pounds than half or more than half a broad sword wieght at heaveist.euro pean steel and japanese steel was the same kind of steel europeans just heat treated it. 5 1/2 foot is not a european broad sword which never got above 42 inches and long swords never got above 50 inches and long swords where the bigest 1 handed european sword mabey its a chineses broad sword. Knights are just as mobil as samuri but the would over heat Because it was hot in there armor But they would be fine in freezing cold places like say japan in the winter. Cleavers are just for cutting boney parts of animals. All in all knights have a humungous advantage over samuri.

[Quote] #62
14 Jul 2006 04:54 pm
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most knight swords r not as good as samurai swords

samurai swords r layored so they can take more impact than any other sword and still be fine

as for armor, not all knights wore armor or heavy armor

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[Quote] #63
15 Jul 2006 03:25 am
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Even a chain mail would be ample protection from a Katana, save the bruising.

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[Quote] #64
15 Jul 2006 10:19 am
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I have to disagree. With enough force, chain mail would be butter to both Katanas and Broad Swords.

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[Quote] #65
15 Jul 2006 04:09 pm
Osama Binlama
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Knights swords had layers if you’re refurring to folding steel knights swords where made the same way but where heat treated better.Katanas arent as flexible as european sword so if the bent to far they would stay bent or evan snap but as the wieght issue goes knights broad swords are only 1 lb heavier at most than katanas. Katanas where overly sharpend where if they hit some thing like plate steel the edge would be so thin it would get very dull. The reason bigger swords like great sword where made so they could get through armors thin spots like like the back of the thighs and the armpits.

[Quote] #66
15 Jul 2006 11:04 pm
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[Quote] #67
16 Jul 2006 02:58 pm
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Osama Binlama wrote: Knights swords had layers if you’re refurring to folding steel knights swords where made the same way but where heat treated better.Katanas arent as flexible as european sword so if the bent to far they would stay bent or evan snap but as the wieght issue goes knights broad swords are only 1 lb heavier at most than katanas. Katanas where overly sharpend where if they hit some thing like plate steel the edge would be so thin it would get very dull. The reason bigger swords like great sword where made so they could get through armors thin spots like like the back of the thighs and the armpits.


the samurai swords layored different metals
both soft and hard
that’s why they could take more

there’s a difference between layoring and folding

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[Quote] #68
16 Jul 2006 08:02 pm
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Folding steel is how they made layerd swords. If you don’t know that go read some history books about swords.

[Quote] #69
16 Jul 2006 08:07 pm
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They took hot metal and would hammer it over on to its self creating layers holding in carbon (steel is an alloy of carbon and steel the more carbon the harder the blade. But you don’t want a relly hard blade or it won’t flex and will snap after about a week so you heat treat it to make it hard and flexible.) Samurias sword where not heat treated right but european swords where.

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[Quote] #70
17 Jul 2006 01:31 am
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Well hacking with and sword isn’t going to cut through chainmail or plate armor... but you must remember that a Knight’s suit has several open spots, and a good stab into any of those open areas could be fatal.

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[Quote] #71
17 Jul 2006 01:50 am
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Osama Binlama wrote: Folding steel is how they made layerd swords. If you don’t know that go read some history books about swords.


u r combining 2 different concepts

layering is not the same as folding

layering is when there are different types of metals
being combined in layers into 1 piece stronger adn more durable


folding is folding the metal it has folds, strengthening the piece

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[Quote] #72
17 Jul 2006 11:05 am
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I think a knight because of the armor!!

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[Quote] #73
17 Jul 2006 12:53 pm
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The only open spots which are all covered in chanmail. They are under the armpits, back of the knee, back of the thigh but about half of all suits had this covered, the inside of the hand which would have a sword griped in it. First of all a stab to the armpit you would have to be crouched with the knights arm and sword dirrectly above him and this would all take 4 seconds to stab. But a knight could react in only 1.5 seconds. The back of the thigh(if the was no plate armor there there is still chainmail) The knight could turn to keep there front facing the samurai plus if the got stuck there it would have to be almost strait through and would take hours to kill the knight. The last was the palm or the hand and is around a weapon. Samurai sword where good for what they needed and knight swords where good for what they needed but knights armor was not what samurai sword where made to get through plus samurai swords because they are curved they are better for cutting than stabing. Knights swords where balanced in good cutting and good stabbing so they could deal with other knights and foot soldiers. Samurai sword had a soft center so when bent they would stay bent of snap this was to save materails. Plus in a war knights also had
better formations and tactics. Folding steel does give you layers better layers than the japanese way.

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[Quote] #74
17 Jul 2006 12:55 pm
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Samurais would win Knights have armor but no skills

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[Quote] #75
17 Jul 2006 12:59 pm
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Some one said that the sword by muesam replicas where fake and not how they relly where over 100 copanies and websites sell the same swords and their not that thin there 1/8 or 1/16 inch thick which is normal for sword that won’t break like katanas that need to be 1/4 or 1/6 thick.They are copies of swords in muesams as the the name says.

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[Quote] #76
17 Jul 2006 01:00 pm
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Knights trained for 14 years and where taught much more and where 5 time more skillful than samuri that trained for 2 or 3 years.

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[Quote] #77
17 Jul 2006 01:32 pm
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J. Clements wrote: In major battles among each warrior, a suit of armor was typically worn and a sword wielded in one or two-hands. For the knight, the primary weapons had always been the long lance and the sword, and to a lesser degree the polaxe, dagger, and mace. The sword was always the foundational weapon of a Knight’s fencing training. For the samurai however, the sword was but one of three major weapons along with the bow and arrow and the yari (thrusting spear). We should consider that, despite their later acquired reputation for swordsmanship, the samurai’s primary weapon was, in fact, not the sword. The sword really did not even become a premier weapon of samurai culture and reach its cult status until the mid to late 17th century when the civil warring period ended. It is something of a myth that every individual Japanese samurai was himself an expert swordsman (no more true than every wild West cowboy was an expert gunfighter). After all, the expression so associated with bushido is “the Way of the horse and bow”, not “the Way of the sword." Besides, unlike knightly chivalric tales and combat accounts, the majority of single combats between samurai described in feudal Japanese literature took place with daggers not swords. But for sake of discussion, let us assume such for both fighters in this imaginary case.

As a sword, the Japanese katana is unmatched in its sharpness and cutting power. Furthermore, it is particularly good at cutting against metal (–but no, it only cuts through other swords in movies and video games!). However, Medieval plate armor is well known for its resistance to cutting, and cutting at a moving target hidden by a shield or a greatsword is not easy. While the edge of a katana is very strong with a sharp cutting bevel, it is a thick wedge shape and still has to move aside material as it cuts. Though this is devastating on a draw slice against flesh and bone, it is much less effective against armors. Realizing this, several styles of Japanese swordsmanship devised specific techniques not to cut at armor, but to stab and thrust at the gaps and joints of it just as the Europeans did against their own plate armor. The primary technique for fighting nearly any kind of armor with most any kind of sword is not to cut but to thrust at the gaps and joints.

Except for major interaction in Korea and encounters against the Mongols, the katana developed in comparative isolation and is not quite the “ultimate sword” some of its ardent admirers occasionally build it up as. The katana’s exceptionally hard edge was prone to chipping and needed frequent re-polishing and its blade could break or bend the same as any other sword might (...and no, they won’t slice through cars or chop into concrete pillars either). It was not designed to take a great deal of abuse, and is not as resilient in flexibility nor intended to directly oppose soft or hard armors as some forms of Medieval swords had to be.

The katana’s design was not set in stone. It was changed and altered over the centuries like any other sword, being slowly improved or adapted to the different needs and tastes of their users in terms of cross section, curvature, and length. In the 13th century for instance, their points had to be redesigned because they were prone to snapping against the metal reinforced “studded” leather armor (essentially equivalent to European brigandine or armor) of the Mongols and Chinese. By the 18th century their blades, no longer used earnestly against armor, tended to be made longer, lighter, and thinner for classroom practicing.

True, the Japanese feudal warrior did have their own form of greatsword in the long no dachi blades, these however were employed specifically by lower ranking foot-soldiers against horses (and presumably, on occasion against pikes). So, we cannot draw an equivalency between these and Medieval greatswords used in knightly fencing arts or to the true two-handers of 16th century European battlefields.

Over all the katana was a very well-rounded design: excellent at cutting and slicing, yet good at thrusting, and suitable for armored or unarmored fighting on foot or horseback, either one or two-handed. It was a carefully crafted and beautiful weapon reflecting generations of artistry and fearsome necessity, but it was still only a sword –a man-made tool of well-tempered and expertly polished metal. Though the details of manufacture differed, they were made by the same fundamental scientific processes of heating and hand-working metal by shaping and grinding as were other fine swords around the world throughout history. Regardless of how they are designed or constructed, all swords have the same goals and perform the same functions: that of guarding against attacks while delivering their own lethal blows.


Samurai were trained to take down guys in Armor, so this means that a Samurai would most definitly be able to thrust his weapon into one of the openings in the Knight’s Armor.

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[Quote] #78
17 Jul 2006 05:56 pm
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Osama Binlama wrote: Some one said that the sword by muesam replicas where fake and not how they relly where over 100 copanies and websites sell the same swords and their not that thin there 1/8 or 1/16 inch thick which is normal for sword that won’t break like katanas that need to be 1/4 or 1/6 thick.They are copies of swords in muesams as the the name says.


ur assuming all european swords were thin and light but not as strong as the thick ones or samurai swords

there were also thick and heavy ones


civilians tended to have the thin ones cus they never fought anybody with armor
only themselves


samurai swords' thickness was not what made them strong
it was the layering of different metals that made them stronger than the europian swords

[Quote] #79
10 Aug 2006 09:55 pm
MEMEmemeMEMEmemeMEMEmeme
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Its me I for got my pass... ME=OSAMA BINLAMA

Any way I’ve said it before not all swords where light but there not more than 13 pounds or 5-1/4 kilos. Samuaris where trained to defeat armor but knights where trained to defeat People from horse back with lances in a charge. Samuaris bows would have little or no affect on charging knights and niether would their swords. The samuari spear might if used the same way the europeans used lances however the samuari were not trained to do this.
Ill Leave it at this they where both trained to fight different fights and where good at their own.But niether was a perfect soldier both skilled swordsman both trained with bows and spears as well as their swords. Both where highranking members of soceity and where revered for their abilities but it depeneds on when they where from to because of armor and weapons i’m sure that a samuari of 1100 could defeate a knight of the same time. I’m also sure a knight of 1350 could defeat a samuari of the same time.

It relly depends on some major things who would win.

— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — -
I’m not quiet...
I’m plotting...

[Quote] #80
27 Sep 2006 09:46 pm
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<>< Fish yummy

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