Religious Debates

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The Reverend - You said you would love to be corrected, right? Please, allow me. No bad feelings, ok? I’m writing a big essay on Evolution right now, showing why it is not valid, and showing the problems with it. It will be maybe 20-30 pages or so. It will use facts, proofs, scientific laws, definitions and so on. It may take until May 31st though. But the problem with most evolutionists is that they don’t accept God, they don’t believe in Him, so they don’t accept Creation, and have to turn to evolution. Evolution is a theory that “works without God." See? It kind of pushes out God, bit by bit, and makes people think there is no God. Evolution and Creation go as two opposite arguments most of the time. Unless you mix the two. But by the Bible, we predict the earth is only about 4,500 or so years old. Evolution says that it is billions of years old. But my essay will show proof for my reasoning, please be patient. It will take care of most questions.



“All sentient life is said to have begun in the sea - “And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life ..." Gen. 1: 20, which is supported by evolution is it not?"



God made sea creatures that lived, yes. But lets look at these verses in Genesis:

“1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."



See, what we have just read states that the creation of sea creatures and birds and land animals and a human were all separate events, they each have a separate place, in thier own specific order. God created the sea creatures... God created the birds... God created the land animals... God created man. Each part of the verse states a separate, individual creation. The verses don’t say," God created the sea creatures, then from them came birds and then came land animals and then came a human." They say that God created each group separately, sea creatures, birds, land animals, a human.


“And is the story of Adam being created from clay not a fantastic metaphor for man evolving from the earth up, ascending from the ranks of lower creatures?"



Lower creatures, like land animals like cattle, were made before Adam, in a separate creation as can be seen in the verses above.



But like I said, no harsh feelings. We weren’t there in the beginning to see it happen, right? But, evidence seems to point to a real creation. And I will show in my essay later on why evolution cannot be a possible theory.


Peace friends! May God bless you all richly!

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All I can say is that the Bible should be read as a guide, a teacher and a source of enlightenment, inspiration, even entertainment, not as a blue-print. With as many translations as there are, we don’t necessarily have access to the original words. Can or have you read the Ancient Hebrew texts upon which our modern Bible is based. The Greek? Latin? Scribes in the Middle Ages translated what we now use as our version of the Holy Bible; however, it would be naive for us to assume that all of the scribes were unbiased, and may have had differing opinions on how to interpret and translate.

Above all else, the Bible is a collection of stories, and dare I say, myths; it is literature, albeit divinely inspired (but NOT divinely scribed), therefore it is subject to interpretation.

But really, my reference to evolution/creation was not intended to be the focus of my post. What I wanted to convey was a sense of open-mindedness and congenial learning. You could be right, I could be right, we could both be wrong, and it doesn’t matter. The path of spirituality is about the journey, and anyone who is truly enlightened will never stop questioning whether what he or she believes is right. I am not arrogant enough to say that I know what is absolute truth; all I can do is share what I feel is true, adapt when new truths are uncovered, and always remember that whatever I picture perfection to be, someone or something else has already envisioned it infinitely greater.

Peacefully,
Rev. Mathew J. Storring

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Very very interesting. I think i may be able to trust you.

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It also depends on what interpretation of the Bible you use, like Old King James version is probably the closest English interpretation. Or if that Bible was interpreted using dynamic equivalence, or formal equivalence.

No, I can’t read Greek or Hebrew, but that would be nice if I could read both...

But about the interpretation. The copiers, in the olden days when they copied the Bible, if they were writing and made ONE mistake, they would trash that whole page and restart. They would make sure that the words weren’t changed, because they knew that verse about changing the contents of the Bible and the consequences of it. When the Jews would copy the Bible, they knew how many letters were in each line. They believed that letting an error would lead them to Hell. They were very reverent about it, and did word for word copying as best they could.



“Can the Bible be infallible if it is written by fallible humans? And if not, how can we accept it as literal truth?"


“There is no logical reason why this could not be true. After all, even fallible humans can get things right some of the time, especially if they are supervised by Someone who is infallible.

Christians do not claim that the humans who penned the books of the Bible were always accurate in everything they said or did. We simply believe that the Bible is right when it claims that God guided these men in their task of writing Scripture, in such a way that the result is an infallible book. The apostle Peter undoubtedly said some foolish things during his lifetime, but God did not allow him to clutter up the Bible with any of those blunders.

2 Timothy 3:16 contains the classic claim that the Bible was produced by God, not just men:

All Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
One standard explanation of the concept of “inspiration” is given by Ryrie:
God’s superintendence of the human authors so that, using their own individual personalities, they composed and recorded without error His revelation to man in the words of the original autographs. (Charles Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972), p. 38)
We do not know exactly how God accomplished His purpose of providing a totally accurate Bible. But 2 Peter 1:21 gives some insight:
No prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
The word “moved” in this verse is also used in Acts 27:15 to describe the way a great storm blew the apostle Paul’s ship off course across the Mediterranean. The people on board could spend the time as they chose (either bailing or wailing!), but the storm determined their destination of Malta. Similarly, God guided the writers of Scripture to produce exactly the message He wanted."


http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t002.html




“and dare I say, myths”



Why? How?




And about the “I could be wrong” thing. If you think about it, everyone could be wrong. They may not want to think it, they may not want to accept it, they may even not accept it, they may not say it, but everyone COULD be wrong. Because we are humans, humans make mistakes, we are imperfect, all of us. Anyone here on earth could be wrong. So that statement goes to all.



Peace. May God bless you all richly!

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"About the 'I could be wrong' thing ..."

- I’m glad you see that.

Rev. Storring

just believe

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my good friends, there is nothing to debate. god IS REAL period

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Real is only what your perceptions tell your brain. For a blind person, color isn’t real. For some people, nothing is real. And I am not a good friend of yours. I did not make this thread to have idiots like yourself corrupt peoples ideas with your idiocy. You should leave.

just believe

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black hydra wrote: “Real is only what your perceptions tell your brain. For a blind person, color isn’t real”

perfect example:you are blind and god is color

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That wasn’t a perfect example of anything. Perfect is subjective. I am not blind. And I have no idea whether god is real or not. Agnosticism is one of those things where I don’t have to waste my life believing in something until I know it’s there. God hasn’t shown himself yet.

just believe

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u poor soul if u wait too long to accept jesus as your lord u will not be saved. plz just have a little faith and know some1 ny the name of jesus christ died a very slow and painful death for you. if u can believe that, then its a start

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I’m quite happy actually. And I have faith that he could be there. But like I said, he hasn’t shown himself. And if and when he does, I will certainly believe in him. But until then, there is too many hypocritical errors made by you people to convince me that god is real. And there is nothing “poor” about being agnostic. If I don’t know what to believe, it’s just because I am confused. What in the hell is so wrong with that?

just believe

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u r poor bcuz on the day of our wonderful lord and saviour Jesus Christ, you will need to believe. but I suppose when ur in hell and u then believe bcuz its the only reason why u r in hell is that god/jesus is real and then u can surrender urself to our lord.

sorry if that sounded to harsh, im not very good at explaining things

just believe

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*u r poor bcuz on the day of our wonderful lord and saviour Jesus Christ’s return*

i meant to say this

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YOU poor soul you, like all the others of your ilk, who believe that simply accepting Jesus as your Lord automatically grants you passage to heaven. FOLLOWING the path of Jesus rewards you with acsension, saying he died for you is a cop-out that millions of sinners seem to think will get them there, and you’ll find out that isn’t the case

Evil is not inbred into the innocent eyes of a child, it is pasted there by the evil intent of human ignorance and conciet

James R. LeClair

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funny how I bet ur an athiest, so dont assume anything about my faith since u dont have a leg to stand on. and u say u think im a sinner? thats not nice for u to say that to a person who sacrificed a lot to get to this current state of faith. ur just a anti christian who hates to see others succeed at their faith just bcuz u have failed so many time in your own faith.

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Failed in my faith? You are posting in a thread started by me, showing more knowledge of Philosophical Divinity than you may ever be able to understand.

I have posted on Philosophy, Physics and debate boards about the mathematical proof of Creation. Knowledge searched for by the wisest and most intelligent men of the history of man

I am a published Artist, Writer, Teacher and philosopher. Google my name and you find MY accomplishments, not some other james r leclair

Judge not my depth of wisdom or knowledge, for the height of conceit is ignorance

and if you look reeeeal closely, the “atheists and agnostics” are more accepting of my theories and philosophies, than they are of your blind rhetoric.

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I’m just saying that when you call me, who is a christian a “sinner” you seem very ignorent. and personnally I dont care if your the smartest published Artist, Writer, Teacher or philosopher that ever lived, without faith in jesus it means nothing and you are NOT better than me just because you THINK you know more than me about anything. you are just one of those people who study their whole life and go to colledge and think they are better than others when the only reason you got to where you are in life is BECAUSE YOU WERE A SPOILED LITTLE RICH BRAT WHO GOT EVERY DAMN THING HE WANTED BECAUSE HIS PARENTS WERE RICH. you are no better than any1 especially a TRUE religious person, dont ever forget that, James.

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Actually I am a high school dropout, raised by my grandparents, on old age pension, after being abused and abandoned as a child. I grew up poor, living from cheque to cheque as my grandfather was crippled and on disability, hoping to better myself from the Jerry Springer family I was born into. I was failed in every art class I took in highschool, in the slums of Toronto. Then after dropping out, after failing what I wanted in life, I lost three sons before the age of 21 which triggered my first attack of relapsing remitting Multiple Sclerosis. Between 21 and 28 I had over 15 documented attacks crippling me, blinding me, taking away my speech, my eyes, my hands, my legs. Luckily MS attacks, for the most part, rarely last more than 3 to 6 months. But wake up one morning blind in one eye, or unable to feel your entire left leg.

Since the age of 16 I have questoned, and searched, and found answers. Those answers evolved into theories, many of which were validated or improved by various studies of ALL forms of spiritualism. including Roman Catholic, Christian, Budhist, Reiki, Norse, Druidic, wicca(which I dislike for many reasons as Rev Storring knows).

IF there is ONE God, then there is ONE Truth. And I may not know what that Truth is, but I can Guarantee I’m closer than most people

So far my knowledge is far closer to truth than your assumption, but I forgive your rude spite

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my bad, thought this was in the “Is the whole of Humanity...." thread

it’s late

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Yawn.