The Human Race

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"I’ve never understood the concept of predestination. Where in the bible specifically does it mention predestination? Any quotes? And I will tell you in advance, if you quote Paul, it’s not worth anything. Paul was a hypocrite who used some vision to justify what he felt the church should be. He never met Jesus, he contradicts Jesus, and, unfortunately, it’s his teachings that inspired even greater hypocrites like Augustine to write even more atrocities into the Bible. Be careful when quoting the Bible, because, hate to break it to you, it’s NOT the original, there are many instances, (the Spanish Inquisition, for example) where sections were re-written to serve the current incarnation of the Catholic Church ... greedy, hypocritical, sexist bastards that they often tend to be.

Rev. Mathew Storring”




That’s just the thing! There is no such thing as predestination! It is a misleading teaching, it goes against the Bible. Glad you saw that part.

But you don’t have to go so hard on Paul, he heard Jesus' voice on his way to Damascus, and then became a follower of Christ, and preached. He was going to kill Christians, heard Jesus asking him why he was persecuting Him, was blinded, was led to the city, was healed, and started witnessing to people about what had just happened and preached about Jesus being the true Messiah.




“Birds evolved. Most had stubs for wings. A few had a mutation that gave them bigger stubs that would let them fly a bit. Those ones survived and were able to reporduce. This new generation of slight flight capable psudo-birds had some mutation that gave them even bigger wings. These survived better and so on..."




Tell me, did those birds change into another species? No. Did those birds have genetic information added to their DNA? No. Did those birds come from reptiles, do you have proof? No. And mutations are 99.9% harmful or neutral. Evolution requires a TON of the 0.1% good mutations to make it possible of a single cell turning into a multicelled human. Most mutations disrupt information, they mix it up, they lose it, many of them cause cancer and disease. Tell me, if you took a watch, opened it up, and jumbled up the mechanisms inside, will it still work? Or even better, will it turn into a new more complex watch? No. No matter how much time you give it, information is not added on, but evolution needs that added on information to evolve into higher class species from a single celled or lower creature.

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"you from Ontario .. Canada ?"
- The Pain

Yes. Oro Station, right between Barrie and Orillia if you know where that is.

Last edited 01 Apr 2006 07:29 pm by The Revered

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Question, how did you figure out about Movie Codec forums?

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"Question, how did you figure out about Movie Codec forums?"

By searching for “James R. Leclair," and I found someone quoting him on these boards.

Rev. Mat Storring

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yes .. how did i find out .. ?

a random guy with an opinion

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im sorry, but a couple of pages ago black hydra wrote (aka we dont really have free will)....erm yes of course we do that is why the world isnt perfect thanks to those two assholes adam and eve. (the picked the apple from the tree when god specificly told them not to.) it was a test of loyalty untill there curiosity got to great and they did it anyway beacause of waht the serpent aka the devil had said to them, so how can you possibly say that “we dont really have free will” ??????????

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umm maybe cause God knew that they would do that... it was kind of stupid for God to warn them when he already knew that they would disobey him anyways...

and how did the devil get into the garden of eden... and why did God punish the snakes when it is not the snakes fault that the devil chose that form...

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Random guy with an opinion. AKA, dumbass, don’t speak. Your only making my embarrassed for having the same phenotype as you.

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Your right. Isn’t it interesting that god always manages to put the blame on things he created? Hmmmm. Let’s create a snake and then punish it for doing something I made it to do. Something it couldn’t even fucking help doing. Yeah, cuz I’m so powerful and all knowing. Yeah....

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"it was kind of stupid for God to warn them when he already knew that they would disobey him anyways..."


It’s a thing called FREE WILL. That’s the whole point. To see what man would do with his free will, obey God and live eternally, or disobey, eat the fruit, and die eventually.



“and how did the devil get into the garden of eden... and why did God punish the snakes when it is not the snakes fault that the devil chose that form..."



He was cast out of Heaven, remember? Where else was he to go? And even more so to spread evil, his whole plan.

God decided to punish the snakes and remove thier legs because the snake decieved Eve, then Eve led Adam to disobedience, and women have to give birth in pain, and since Adam disobeyed, mankind will always die and we have to work and sweat for food, and they had to leave the Garden of Eden.

The Diabolical One...
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It’s actually called being ALL KNOWING... god knew they would do that before they did it... they didn’t get a chance to make a choice cause if they didn’t eat the fruit than god would have been wrong which is impossible...

And so God punished an entire species cause the devil just happened to pick a snake for that instance... it’s not like all snakes are the devil so why should all of them be cursed... hmm you know I guess that sounds a lot like God... punish those who did nothing because one of their race didn’t have a choice... and so God won’t let Satan into heaven but he will let him where his most important creations walk around... yeah nice going God... and he blames us for eating the fruit... what a joke...

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dark, I’m proud of you. You just said ninety percent of the things I was going to say.

The Diabolical One...
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umm thanks...

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"It’s actually called being ALL KNOWING... god knew they would do that before they did it... they didn’t get a chance to make a choice cause if they didn’t eat the fruit than god would have been wrong which is impossible...

And so God punished an entire species cause the devil just happened to pick a snake for that instance... it’s not like all snakes are the devil so why should all of them be cursed... hmm you know I guess that sounds a lot like God... punish those who did nothing because one of their race didn’t have a choice... and so God won’t let Satan into heaven but he will let him where his most important creations walk around... yeah nice going God... and he blames us for eating the fruit... what a joke..."



They DID have the choice, and they made it, they did have free will! Yes, God knew what they would do, but they were the ones deciding and doing it.


Yes, God punished the whole species of snake for the Devil’s actions. He chose to do it, He has the right to do whatever He wants to, because He is God, the Almighty. Who are you to judge? Without God, you would not be.

God warned Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit. Adam and Eve disobeyed and ate it. Of course it’s their fault! An act of disobedience.

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what you don’t understand (and some christians don’t understand) is that the bible isn’t to be taken literaly, It was away for God to teach his lessons in away that people would understand, it’s just like the boy who cried wolf, I doubt a wolf ate a boy but it was a way for them to teach a lesson,

if we had no freewill the world would be “perfect” no one would be able to do any crimes and no early deaths but we wouldn’t be happy because we aren’t doing controlling our actions. Just because God knows what’s going to happen doesn’t mean he’s controlling it,

Black Hydra if any your the one with the most unvalued part in this debate because you’re to subborn to believe anything else then what has already been set in stone in your own mind

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Now it’s all making sense. They didn’t have a choice. They didn’t have the free will to make the choice. And when you say god had the choice to punish the whole species, why did he? Because he could? Dark is just curious. You should not tell him things that are not on his level of understanding. You are explaining things to us in terms that we don’t believe in. And no, it’s not Adam and Eves fault. God made them knowing they would eat the fruit. Essentially, I think god can take the credit there.

The Diabolical One...
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oh yeah that’s real fair... I punish you cause I am pissed and I can... real mature God... and for the Adam and Eve thing umm you just still don’t understand do you...

Hey I know let’s play a game... pretend that I am all knowing for a second... now let’s say that I know that you will eat a ham sandwhich in one hour...

now in one hour guess what you will do...

1st choice... you will play basketball

2nd choice... you will talk with your pretend hamster in chinese

3rd choice... you will eat a ham sandwhich

Now guess what you will do... if you chose 3 then you are correct if you chose the others than I am obviously not all knowing... so tell me did you have a choice there... no you didn’t.... cause if you did then I am not all knowing am I... therin lies my point... now if you can come up with a situation where you are all knowing and yet I still get to choose my action then be my guest but I guarantee you that you never will...

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"Now it’s all making sense. They didn’t have a choice. They didn’t have the free will to make the choice. And when you say god had the choice to punish the whole species, why did he? Because he could? Dark is just curious. You should not tell him things that are not on his level of understanding. You are explaining things to us in terms that we don’t believe in. And no, it’s not Adam and Eves fault. God made them knowing they would eat the fruit. Essentially, I think god can take the credit there."


They did have the choice, either don’t eat the fruit, live eternally, or eat the fruit, and die sometime in your life.

God can do whatever He wants to, and if He chose to punish the whole species, then that’s the way it was. Who are we to judge? Without God, you and I would not be, we would not speak, nothing. Without God, we are nothing.


And yes, it was Adam’s and Eve’s fault. They had the free will, to eat the fruit, or not to eat the fruit. God knew what they would choose, but He was not limiting them in any way to choose elsewise. They chose for themselves, and have an Observer - God, Who knows the future, Who is outside our timelines, Who is Supernatural, Who is Allknowing, Who is Allseeing.


“oh yeah that’s real fair... I punish you cause I am pissed and I can... real mature God..."


Like I said, who are we to judge God? We are nothing without God. And God punished them for disobedience.


About your little game. See, it’s not like you can’t choose any other thing to do, it’s that God already knows what you will do, and if you change your mind, etc. God knows, but He is not limiting you in any way from choosing elsewise. You have your FREE WILL. You are not a robot! You make choices everyday, your own choices! It’s not like your playing a game with your steps known ahead of time. It’s like God sees your whole life in front of Him like an object with certain dimensions and shape. He already sees your life, because He is Allknowing.

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Yep. That justifies GODS decision, because he can. Wow. We don’t have free will if everything we do is predetermined either.

The Diabolical One...
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you didn’t play my game SWC... am I or am I not correct in that little situation... please pick one of those choices and then explain to me how you could choose the other two and I would still be all knowing...