to everyone, i understand where you are coming from. i did my best to respond to your statements.
well, their are a lot of arguments here, and i don’t have time to respond to them all. i will try to get the most general ones so i can reply to some second hand. and, zucas, this will be fun. going head to head with an idol of mine. This will be fun.
Weasel 16 wrote:
but evil isn\'t the absence of God, merely an opinion that is based on a popular majority.
remember: just because they say it, doesn\'t mean its true.
well, according to the christan faith (wich is what we sort of have to go by in this situation for describing God), God is the essence of perfection. basecly, he is the essence of everything that is not evil. so, when thier is an absent of God, and absent of good, thier is evil.
Quakeless One wrote:
So god created an absense of god...... AND?
no. satin created an absence of God. satin used to be the greatest angel. he became prideful, and was thrown out of heaven. thus, sin was started. satin impressed sin on man, when he, in the form of a snake, convinced eve to eat the apple of life. ever since that point, the human race was engulfed in sin. before that point, humans were perfect. but, they were tainted. now, human nature is evil. that is, in essence, why satin has control of earth. human nature is evil, and we need Gods help, through Jesus, to get to heaven.
Weasel 16 wrote:
Well that\'s higher beings for you, arrogant, superfisal ass holes who enjoy to cause suffering and pain but minute you do somthing to offend them, they act like your deep frying kittens!
but if you must know, i believe his name to be Jehovah. now i know that\'s Hebrew for god, but it make sense.
well, this is also sort of replying to the post above this one.
God does communicate with us. but, God is perfection. his very existence is the absent of sin. thus, he cannot come in contact with sin. because of this, he does not directly talk to us. sometimes, he is blunt, as to Moses, through the burning bush, but that is for extreme cases only. normally he only talk to us through the holy spirit, living inside us. also, he can speak to us through his word, aka the bible.
he does not cause suffering. he just doesn\'t always stop it. some times he makes us learn our lessons. he gave us free will, so if he always stopped anything bad from happening, it would not be true freedom. freedom is making your own choices and accepting the consequences, and living with them. sometimes innocent people are hurt, but that is to teach other lessens.
no, his name is not Jehovah. his name was considered to holy for people, and they came up with other names to call him by. that is the peoples level of respect for their God.
Weasel 16 wrote:
I mean what the fuck makes him so special? Oh look I made you! I make every thing! Oh and by the way I\'m never going to help any of you ever again because two people no one has ever met did something that I told them was wrong. granted they had no real concept of wrong, and granted all it made them do was cover there genitals, which means now I can only get a hard on by watching playboy, BUT ITS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING!
just one comment before i start on this post... you seem in pain... i mean seriously, you seem pissed at life... and very full of hate. is their any specific reason, or is it just none of my business (i understand if you would never tell me. im sort of going through a bad period in my own life, and i don’t tell anyone about it... i was just curious if it is personally, general, or if your just naturally like this.)
God helps us every day. we may not relies it because we do not see the whole picture, but God does help us. what he lets us endure is meant to strengthen us, or bring us closer to him. adam and eve brought sin into the world. into the human race. because of that, we are no longer perfect. we have to live with sin, and that can never be changed.
im sary if this is not good enough, but this is the best i can do.
Read this if your stupid 2 wrote:
too things wrong with that. Albert einstein had dislexia(dont know how to spell it) so his mind wont allow him to think so intensly so quikly. Also saying evil doesnt exist its just the absense of god is also saying god doesnt exist. Since you could say god doesnt exist its just the absense of evil so it doesnt work. Also you could say light doesnt exist because its the absense of darkness and so forth and so forth. This is also explained by newton saying with every action theres a equal reaction witch keeps everything balanced. So if you say evil doesnt exist your saying god doesnt exist but if your saying god doesnt exist your saying evil doesnt exist.
well, the first is slightly irrelevant in my mind here... but ya...
actually, light is a thing you can study. scientists are not exactly sure what it is, but it is waves, or particles, or both. darkness is merely were their is no light. light is in no way the absence of darkness. also, heat is the thermal energy in matter. when the thermal energy is lacking, their is cold. thus, heat is not the absence of cold. in the same way, God, in the christen religion, is perfection. it is a lack of sin. when their is not God, their is sin. the absence of God is a lack of God, a lack of God is sin. everything that does not have God is sin. that is the essence of sin.
Zucas wrote:
Well very interesting but the absences of god does not equal evil. The abscense of god is simply the the loss of faith which is therefore reason. Reason comes from the abscense of god not evil. Haha I just owned Alber Einstein.
But anyways if god did create everything that there is then yes he did create evil. Cause evil is something that is in every human\'s thoughts and only could be there if something put it there. And if you beleive that good created you then you believe that he put evil within you. But also remember without evil their wouldn\'t be good now would there. But without good there still would be evil. Catch what I\'m saying.
So to have good you must have something to define it with and what better than evil. So if you look at this totally hypothetically to have good you must have evil. But to have evil you don\'t necessarily need good.
But more along the points Mr. Einstein brought up some really good thoughts but indeed he is wrong. If you believe in god you believe in everything he has thus created. He created man and man has evil in its thoughts.
But if you don\'t believe in god then you believe that in every human there is the right to do good or bad. But there is an extremely then line between good and evil cause it\'s all based on perception. Such as Hitler thought he was doing morally good by executing all the Jews in his attempt to make a superior race. While many others see that as evil he thought it was good for him, Germany, the world, and his faith. So really to judge anyone as being good or evil all goes to perception.
but I\'m way off what we were talking about. You can look at it the way Eienstein did cause the absent of light is darkness. But those 2 situations cna only go one way. Darkness an cold are spinoffs of heat and light as darkness and cold really only exist cause of the absent of the other 2. But evil can exist with the absent of god cause people started off with evil within them. And believing in god doesn\'t mean that you are a good or bad man but simply as you call yourself a Christian.
All in all we are all people with good and evil in ourselves and that\'s just it. None of us can technically classify ourselves either way cause perception always goes both ways. But Mr. Einstein is a very smart man indeed. The proffessor was extremely smart himself but just not quick witted I guess.
Also just for a lasting thing here\'s something interesting. Has anyone noticed that good and god and evil and devil are very similar. Good and god are exactly the same except with one letter difference while devil and evil are the exact same except with a one letter difference.
So what happened first. Did good and evil arise from god and devil or did god and devil arise from good and evil?
man, this is long. what a pain...
[reply to first paragraph]God is perfection. a lack of perfection is sin. basecly, God is all things good. a lack of good is sin. God does not exist because people believe in him.
[reply to second paragraph]evil is the absence of God. if God is not in something, it is evil. sin is when we do something not influenced by God (or, since God is good, not influenced by good.) humans naturally do this because satin controls the earth. and, i think the rest of this is answered by responding to the next paragraph (your describing paragraph.)
[reply to third paragraph]good is defined by God. God is the basis of good. he is what defines it. evil is defined by a lack of God. or, since God defines good, evil is defined by a lack of good.
[reply to fourth paragraph]when God created man, we were perfect. but, we were tainted with evil from satin, in the form of a snake.
[reply to fifth paragraph]i believe people have the right to do evil. but, if they do evil, it keeps them away from perfection, which is God. so, basically, because they cannot go to God, they cannot go to heaven. and, because they go to heaven, they must go to hell. and, for the rest of that, that is why i think you sometimes need God to judge if something is evil or not. if you are simple minded, you think it is obvious. but, in reality, its not. you need something to judge it. and, because no one is perfect, we need something perfect to define what is evil. and, thus, we need God to define some evil.
[reply to sixth paragraph]for the first sentence, maybe a little, but this is fun. for the rest, evil can also only exist with the absent of God. if God is truly in your actions, then your actions are good. even if you do not believe in God, God can be in your actions. for the end, i was hopping you would go their. that is a common misconception about Christianity. allot of people think that christens think their perfect. but, we know very well that we are sinful. no one is perfect, including us. that is why we need saving. that is why Jesus died for us. his blood cleans us in Gods eyes. because Gods son died for us, he cleans us before God. we are not perfect, but because of Jesus, God can accept us into heaven. since we have a relationship with Jesus, we try to be good people. we try to do good because we love Jesus and God, and no other reason. it is a relationship. (hmm, i kind of drifted their, i just had to say that.)
[reply to seventh paragraph]see last response.
[reply to eighth paragraph]sweet... never noticed that.
[reply to ninth paragraph]well, i know that was rhetorical, but whatever... God is good, and they are one in the same. the devil came before evil and created it.
Atresac wrote:
How can there be an absense of God if God is everywhere?
its actualy more when people stray from God in how they act.
if anyone else realy wants something replied, just tell me... later. i gtg right now.
too things wrong with that. Albert einstein had dislexia(dont know how to spell it) so his mind wont allow him to think so intensly so quikly. Also saying evil doesnt exist its just the absense of god is also saying god doesnt exist. Since you could say god doesnt exist its just the absense of evil so it doesnt work. Also you could say light doesnt exist because its the absense of darkness and so forth and so forth. This is also explained by newton saying with every action theres a equal reaction witch keeps everything balanced. So if you say evil doesnt exist your saying god doesnt exist but if your saying god doesnt exist your saying evil doesnt exist.
Great point. I’m actually impressed you’ve presented an intelligent post for once. Newton’s Third Law, For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. think about the meaning of this.
While driving down the road, an unfortunate bug strikes the windshield of a bus. Quite obviously, this is a case of Newton’s third law of motion. The bug hit the bus and the windshield hit the bus. Which of the two forces is greater... the force on the bug or the force on the bus?
Trick Question! Each force is the same size. For every action, there is an equal ... (equal!). The fact that the bug splatters only means that with its smaller mass, it is less able to withstand the larger acceleration resulting from the interaction. Now apply this to good forces and evil forces. Each force has it’s own equal opposite force reaction which CAN be measured the same as its opposite.
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Last edited 31 Jul 2006 01:47 am by Xtrm Liability
kev360 wrote:
[reply to first paragraph]God is perfection. a lack of perfection is sin. basecly, God is all things good. a lack of good is sin. God does not exist because people believe in him.
[reply to second paragraph]evil is the absence of God. if God is not in something, it is evil. sin is when we do something not influenced by God (or, since God is good, not influenced by good.) humans naturally do this because satin controls the earth. and, i think the rest of this is answered by responding to the next paragraph (your describing paragraph.)
[reply to third paragraph]good is defined by God. God is the basis of good. he is what defines it. evil is defined by a lack of God. or, since God defines good, evil is defined by a lack of good.
[reply to fourth paragraph]when God created man, we were perfect. but, we were tainted with evil from satin, in the form of a snake.
[reply to fifth paragraph]i believe people have the right to do evil. but, if they do evil, it keeps them away from perfection, which is God. so, basically, because they cannot go to God, they cannot go to heaven. and, because they go to heaven, they must go to hell. and, for the rest of that, that is why i think you sometimes need God to judge if something is evil or not. if you are simple minded, you think it is obvious. but, in reality, its not. you need something to judge it. and, because no one is perfect, we need something perfect to define what is evil. and, thus, we need God to define some evil.
[reply to sixth paragraph]for the first sentence, maybe a little, but this is fun. for the rest, evil can also only exist with the absent of God. if God is truly in your actions, then your actions are good. even if you do not believe in God, God can be in your actions. for the end, i was hopping you would go their. that is a common misconception about Christianity. allot of people think that christens think their perfect. but, we know very well that we are sinful. no one is perfect, including us. that is why we need saving. that is why Jesus died for us. his blood cleans us in Gods eyes. because Gods son died for us, he cleans us before God. we are not perfect, but because of Jesus, God can accept us into heaven. since we have a relationship with Jesus, we try to be good people. we try to do good because we love Jesus and God, and no other reason. it is a relationship. (hmm, i kind of drifted their, i just had to say that.)
[reply to seventh paragraph]see last response.
[reply to eighth paragraph]sweet... never noticed that.
[reply to ninth paragraph]well, i know that was rhetorical, but whatever... God is good, and they are one in the same. the devil came before evil and created it.
Ok some very interesting responses but your looking at it from one view and one view only. When I wrote my piece I took it from both perspectives so I was hoping you would do the same but whatev.
Anyways people say that the devil was the one to push Eve and Adam into picking the apple but the Devil didn’t automatically give those humans reason. Adam and Eve had already had reason and free thinking before that. The Devil just gave them another point of view. They’d been listening to god for so long that not to touch the apple the devil comes up and says why not take the apple.
The Devil is the essence of evil but he didn’t taint Adam and Eve. They already had that freedom of choice within them. Meaning they could have picked the apple anytime they wanted. So if that is what evil was then then yes Adam and Eve had evil within them already. The were not dependent on the Devil to take that Apple the Devil just gave them a push to their thoughts.
So with that said the first humans created had free will, free choice, and free thought. Meaning that they could do howevery they pleased, think howevery they wanted, and be whoever they wanted. With that said that means they had every feeling a normal human being had. So they could love, hate, cry, get made, be sad, ect. With all of that comes different attitudes which also says that they weren’t necessarily the definition of “perfect”. Which therefore brings us to the conclusion that Adam and Eve weren’t made perfect in a Christians eyes nowadays. They had every kinda of feeling within them and remember I said could be who ever they wanted to be. Sometimes being whoever you want to be is bad. Which means that finally getting straight to the point they had evil within them from the start.
So maybe god didn’t directly endow them with evil but by directly giving them free will he gave them indirectly evil. See where I’m going with this.
Now everyone’s definition of perfect will always be different. But to a Christian what is the definition of perfect? Well you go off the basis of one man, Jesus who is in Christianity, “perfection”. But as a human that we see today was he the least bit perfect. Apsolutely not.
Jesus was perfect in another way in your religion. He was perfect as in being morally right his entire life. He was not a sinner and the definition of a sinner is one that breaks God’s Laws.
So naturally today perfection is looked at differently as we follow Man’s Laws not god’s laws. Therefore meaning in our time defying the goverment and presenting treason to a standard official religion would not be perfection.
If we had lived in the Roman era as we are today and a man like Jesus came around we’d have stoned and tortured and killed the man instantly for defying our religion and out thoughts and the peace. But once again I’m drifting off subject.
But perfection is a very broad word to choose as it differs from each person. I see perfection as a person who tries to be their best to everyone everyday. Just a guy who does his job, gentleman to everyone, and speaks out as himself and not another person. That’s perfection to me.
Now going from the Christian point of view god is the essence of “perfection”. Now as Einstein said with the absence of god their is evil thus saying that evil wouldn’t exist if god was in everyone. But in many ways that is a lie and impossible cause their are people all over the world who can be “good” without having to have a god. So defying that with the absence of god can’t be evil as cause with god in people’s hearts their can be evil such as the Crusades, every last pope, and every follower on a day to day basis and it doesn’t work the other way also as their are many people who don’t follow that religion who do good things.
But the part where it’s getting everyone is that no one can be perfect so then as you would say there is always evil. But as I just said that Adam and Eve weren’t made perfect so now it’s saying that evil had to be created from the ultimate creator. So to recount I said that Adam and Eve weren’t perfect, and people today can’t possibly be perfect so evil couldn’t have arisen anytime in man’s history but thus far endowned into them. So perfection is something that is unachievealbe by any human even Jesus to the perception of a large amount of people. So your perfection is a false lie that has never been endowed in people and evil has always been there because the sole creator gave that to it’s people indirectly through free will.
Now so with that said there is no possibly way that the abscense of god can lead to evil as evil is present with or without god cause god created it in people from the get go indirectly through free will. Meaning that soley the abscense of good is evil but without evil good wouldn’t exist. But without good evil will always exist cause evil doesn’t have to be defined but good had to. You can’t say something is good until something bad is their to be opposite and clarify it but you can say something is bad without good being there to clarify it such as the genocide of the Jews.
So with all that said it’s simply the abscense of good is evil but not the other way around. The abscense of god is reason cause if you don’t believe in god then you have no faith for it which means you have reason. Reason is something followers can’t have cause they are a follower and technically reason is a sin. But without Reason their would be no god.
I hope I haven’t lost anybody but yea. Anyways want someone to think about the similarities of god and good and evil and devil. So what do you think came first. Could god and devil simply be a story about good and evil? The bible is that story but could it simply be a story to describe the 2 words?
--- It’s not about money. It’s about sending a message. Everything burns.
Wow Zucas, You’ve been doing some thinking. Let me just say, I agree, the devil does not create evil. The devil only sets the stage. Free will makes the evil choice.
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Last edited 31 Jul 2006 02:07 am by Xtrm Liability
Xtrm Liability wrote:
Wow Zucas, You’ve been doing some thinking. Let me just say, you’re correct, the devil does not create evil. The devil only sets the stage. Free will makes the evil choice.
Haha thanks. Haha I try to think sometimes haha but I like to overly analyize a lot of shit. But thx I put a lot of thought in to that post.
--- It’s not about money. It’s about sending a message. Everything burns.
Kev360:
Please, PLEASE, stop telling me that “the only way into heaven is through jesus” crap, if that’s what you beleive that’s fine, but constantly telling me or and others doesn’t do any good besides making me slightly angry. Anyway
But god created satin, so therefor he created evil, or “the absense of god” as has been stated. So god created the absense of god..... AND?
--- "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich” -Napoleon
kev360: what your saying is complieing with newtons 3rd law so what you say its incorrect because with good there is bad so you cant have a god(essence of good) without a evil so therefore evil has to exist for a god to exist
---
PS3KICKS360 wrote:
I am a celebrity for all those gay porno’s I do in my spare time
Weasel 16 wrote:
but evil isn\'t the absence of God, merely an opinion that is based on a popular majority.
remember: just because they say it, doesn\'t mean its true.
well, according to the christan faith (wich is what we sort of have to go by in this situation for describing God), God is the essence of perfection. basecly, he is the essence of everything that is not evil. so, when thier is an absent of God, and absent of good, thier is evil.
but he created every thing including his own absence, and being omnipotent, he knows and lets his self be lost, in the interest of damning people and spreading general chaos and terror.
Weasel 16 wrote:
Well that\'s higher beings for you, arrogant, superfisal ass holes who enjoy to cause suffering and pain but minute you do somthing to offend them, they act like your deep frying kittens!
but if you must know, i believe his name to be Jehovah. now i know that\'s Hebrew for god, but it make sense.
well, this is also sort of replying to the post above this one.
.
God does communicate with us. but, God is perfection. his very existence is the absent of sin. thus, he cannot come in contact with sin. because of this, he does not directly talk to us. sometimes, he is blunt, as to Moses, through the burning bush, but that is for extreme cases only. normally he only talk to us through the holy spirit, living inside us. also, he can speak to us through his word, aka the bible..
so his power is limited by his own ego.
.
he does not cause suffering. he just doesn\'t always stop it. some times he makes us learn our lessons. he gave us free will, so if he always stopped anything bad from happening, it would not be true freedom. freedom is making your own choices and accepting the consequences, and living with them. sometimes innocent people are hurt, but that is to teach other lessens..
So those kids in third world countries who are starving to death are just learning a lesson?
.
no, his name is not Jehovah. his name was considered to holy for people, and they came up with other names to call him by. that is the peoples level of respect for their God..
Then I should call him “He who shall not be named”
Weasel 16 wrote:
I mean what the fuck makes him so special? Oh look I made you! I make every thing! Oh and by the way I\'m never going to help any of you ever again because two people no one has ever met did something that I told them was wrong. granted they had no real concept of wrong, and granted all it made them do was cover there genitals, which means now I can only get a hard on by watching playboy, BUT ITS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING!
.
just one comment before i start on this post... you seem in pain... i mean seriously, you seem pissed at life... and very full of hate. is their any specific reason, or is it just none of my business (i understand if you would never tell me. im sort of going through a bad period in my own life, and i don’t tell anyone about it... i was just curious if it is personally, general, or if your just naturally like this.).
I always seem to come across to people as an ass hole.
.
God helps us every day. we may not relies it because we do not see the whole picture, but God does help us. what he lets us endure is meant to strengthen us, or bring us closer to him. adam and eve brought sin into the world. into the human race. because of that, we are no longer perfect. we have to live with sin, and that can never be changed..
Strengthen? You have a very weird definition of strengthen. watching as people you care about get killed, suffering and pain, pulse having to go on knowing that you’ll probably out live them all, that’s supposed to strengthen me? Blood death and schematics.
.
im sary if this is not good enough, but this is the best i can do..
i know.
--- Dogbert said the deepest thing ever.
“It is all a part of the big illusion we perpetuate upon ourselves and which is in turn perpetuated upon us. When we believe we engage the illusion, when we stop believing we shatter the illusion and ourselves in the process because we are part of it."
butt_hair_reborn-xclaim wrote:
how do we know taht teh absence of darkness isnt light?
or teh absence of cold isnt heat?
Well that’s science and was extremely bad examples for Mr. Einstein to give in his rant. Darkness is the abscense of light as darkness is not a real thing. We just use the word to describe what you. I mean as he said you can’t measure it or nothing. It’s just what fills everything when light is no more. And cold is nothing but the abscense of heat as cold is just a word to describe when heat is no more. With the sun their providing nothing but heat it only gets cold when that source is eliminated thus cold is just a metaphor for what we feel when heat is no more.
He was definetly correct about those stuff but a real wrong one for his 3rd.
--- It’s not about money. It’s about sending a message. Everything burns.
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