| 21 Sep 2006 03:54 pm |
you are smart Rep: 48  Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 16,610 OFFLINE | The movies always sucked too. ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 04:02 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 13  Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,014 OFFLINE | one thing i don’t get is superman’s original writers made supes unable to fly. he only leaped... he was merely faster than a speeding bullet, and stronger than a locomotive. DC reconned supe to this all out raw powering superhero. why can’t it be the same with Dragon ball. Akira sold the rights for the GT series, and being as it was the latest, why isn’t it considered a retcon? if you’re only going for original writers, Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel wrote the orginal, canon superman. just like akira toriyama wrote the original Dragon ball. right? ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 04:02 pm |
Guardian of MvC Rep: 83  Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 44,426 OFFLINE | yeah ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 04:05 pm |
Guardian of MvC Rep: 83  Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 44,426 OFFLINE | It’s like the Fullmetal Alchemist series, the entire series isn’t canon, only the first part is. After that the writers created their own story that wasn’t based off the original story. GT isn’t based on an original work by Akira Toriyama, so therefor it isn’t canon. ---
 Last edited 21 Sep 2006 04:05 pm by Cid | |
| 21 Sep 2006 05:01 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 13  Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,014 OFFLINE | so... DC’s superman isn’t canon 'cause it isn’t based off of the Joe Shuster’s and Jerry Siegel’s superman? ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 05:13 pm |
Manchester Black Guest | TrueGamer wrote:
so... DC’s superman isn’t canon 'cause it isn’t based off of the Joe Shuster’s and Jerry Siegel’s superman?
False. Superman was pretty much always with DC comics and always was comics that had yet to end. DBZ on the other hand was already made with an ending by Toriyama and was adapted into an anime with changes that weren’t in the original manga. Plus as Cid said Toriyama had little to no work on GT. | |
| 21 Sep 2006 05:37 pm |
Guardian of MvC Rep: 83  Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 44,426 OFFLINE | TrueGamer wrote:
so... DC’s superman isn’t canon 'cause it isn’t based off of the Joe Shuster’s and Jerry Siegel’s superman?
no, Akira Toriyama wrote the story of Dragonball and Dragonball Z. He then sold the rights to have the series turned into the anime. But he didn’t create a story for DBGT which is why it isn’t canon. Superman has always had a story. ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 05:38 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 13  Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,014 OFFLINE | Manchester Black wrote:
TrueGamer wrote:
so... DC’s superman isn’t canon 'cause it isn’t based off of the Joe Shuster’s and Jerry Siegel’s superman?
False. Superman was pretty much always with DC comics and always was comics that had yet to end. DBZ on the other hand was already made with an ending by Toriyama and was adapted into an anime with changes that weren’t in the original manga. Plus as Cid said Toriyama had little to no work on GT.
most of dragon ball’s life was in the anime, right? and the dragon ball z series retconned the dragon ball manga ending. ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 05:44 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 13  Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,014 OFFLINE | Cid wrote:
TrueGamer wrote:
so... DC’s superman isn’t canon 'cause it isn’t based off of the Joe Shuster’s and Jerry Siegel’s superman?
no, Akira Toriyama wrote the story of Dragonball and Dragonball Z. He then sold the rights to have the series turned into the anime. But he didn’t create a story for DBGT which is why it isn’t canon. Superman has always had a story.
but not by the original writers. stories can be written by different writers and still be canon, right? so why can’t it be the same for the dragon ball series? Akira sold the rights, someone else wrote the stories. same thing with Shuster and Jerry Siegel; they sold the rights to DC, and someone else wrote the stories. ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 05:45 pm |
Manchester Black Guest | TrueGamer wrote:
most of dragon ball’s life was in the anime, right?
No before being adapted into an anime it was a manga.
and the dragon ball z series retconned the dragon ball manga ending.
Not to sure haven’t seen the DB ending. Anyway it doens’t matter seeing as the DBZ manga came before the anime. | |
| 21 Sep 2006 05:50 pm |
Manchester Black Guest | TrueGamer wrote:
but not by the original writers. stories can be written by different writers and still be canon, right? so why can’t it be the same for the dragon ball series? Akira sold the rights, someone else wrote the stories. same thing with Shuster and Jerry Siegel; they sold the rights to DC, and someone else wrote the stories.
I could be wrong but I think Superman was always with DC. One reason is because Supermans story has yet to end. Toriyama ended his with DBZ and had done little work on GT. Theres also the fact that so many changes were made that contradicted the original story. Now if Toriyama decides to contiune DBZ himself then it will be canon. | |
| 21 Sep 2006 05:52 pm |
Guardian of MvC Rep: 83  Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 44,426 OFFLINE | TrueGamer wrote:
Cid wrote:
TrueGamer wrote:
so... DC’s superman isn’t canon 'cause it isn’t based off of the Joe Shuster’s and Jerry Siegel’s superman?
no, Akira Toriyama wrote the story of Dragonball and Dragonball Z. He then sold the rights to have the series turned into the anime. But he didn’t create a story for DBGT which is why it isn’t canon. Superman has always had a story.
but not by the original writers. stories can be written by different writers and still be canon, right? so why can’t it be the same for the dragon ball series? Akira sold the rights, someone else wrote the stories. same thing with Shuster and Jerry Siegel; they sold the rights to DC, and someone else wrote the stories.
Well in that case as far as anime canon is concerned, the most of the Superman stuff isn’t canon  ---
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| 21 Sep 2006 05:56 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 13  Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,014 OFFLINE | nah, superman was sold to DC in 1938, but was made in 1932. he was originally a villain, but was reworked in 1932 as a hero. ---
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| 22 Sep 2006 10:27 am |
Pwnage Guest | Atresac wrote:
yusif2k wrote:
Cid wrote:
How did yusif prove it was canon when it’s clearly not? The definition of Canon is the following;
Actually, i was using a Wikipedia article, which said that GT was officially canon although fans considered it not to be. Then, someone went and changed it taking out the part that said “GT is officially canon”. That’s when i realized articles on wikipedia can be edited by anyone at anytime. Nonetheless, that’s what the thread starter is using, and SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3 is “canon”.
“In the context of fiction, the canon of a fictional universe comprises those novels, stories, films, etc. that are considered to be genuine, and those events, characters, settings, etc. that are considered to have inarguable existence within the fictional universe. Usually items that are considered canon come from the original source of the fictional universe while non-canon material comes from adaptations or unofficial items.";
So what you’re saying is GT isn’t official; because it is. If it wasn’t official, then it wouldn’t be made by a licensed company that had rights to make it. Instead, it would be made up in some fan’s mind. The only reason it’s not considered canon is becuase of some contradictions that are insignificant to begin with.
Dragonball GT lacks both of these qualities, Unlike Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Akira Toriyama had only minor involvement in the show’s early stages;
So what about Superman’s original writer; If i recall, Superman was made in the 50’s. So, would the original writer still be writing about Superman to this day; not likely. From what i heard, Superman has 100+ writers where as dbz has only one. If what you’re saying is true, then everything that was made by writers other than the first about Superman should be non-canon due to the fact the original writer did not contribute to the new material.
setting forth the initial premise of the series, as well as designs for most of the main characters, including newcomer Giru. Because of his minimal involvement, some parts of GT contradict the previous parts of the series. It’s inconsistencies include but are not limited to;
You do realize you are using this from a Wikipedia article which i already mentioned can be edited by anyone at anytime; But anyway...
* Goku’s immature behavior and seemingly limited strength in his child form, despite retaining his adult memories and strength.
* Trunks and Goku not using Super Saiyan as often as they ought to, in fights where it would easily allow them to win.
* The fact Gohan could turn Super Saiyan despite the fact it appeared that after having his power unlocked during the Fusion saga he was unable to do so anymore.
* Vegeta growing (and then shaving off) a mustache, when Saiyans are previously stated to only have hair that grows in a set pattern, to a certain length.
As already mentioned, these have very little importance to the fact that the character’s increase in power is correlated with the amount of fighting experience they gain through battles and training. They are also insignificant considering they don’t have to do with the fact saiyans have no limit to their power. With more experience, they get an increase in all of the categories; such as strength, speed, and durability. Plus, i could easily say that KH2 isn’t canon because Axel who was a member of Organization XIII said every heartless slain only by the Keyblade releases a captive heart. Though, when Cloud and Squall killed heartless, the captive hearts were also released...that’s a contradiction. Kingdom Hearts II is canon.
There are too many things GT lacks to be considered canon.
I think I proved that wrong above.
I think you didn’t. And the whole “wikipedia can be edited by anyone” thing is bullshit anyway. Do you know just how quickly bullshit gets cleaned up on wikipedia? Just about instantly. I once edited a page to make a little joke, and by the time I copy and pasted the link to my friend, re-opened the window and refreshed the page, it was back to normal. All that aside though, the reason GT should not be considered canon is because of all the inconsistencies throughout the show and its linking (or lack thereof) to the DB/Z series.
Dude, I just canceled out the inconstistencies in a previous post and yusif is right that only that 50’s Supes should count. | |
| 22 Sep 2006 02:20 pm |
Guardian of MvC Rep: 83  Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 44,426 OFFLINE | I think I proved that GT isn’t Canon though  As I said, if you count GT as canon then you have to count the moves as canon seeing as how the movies and GT are things that was created by another person and don’t have an original story.
Unfortunatly for you guys though, the movies have so many inconsistencies that in they can’t be included into a dragonball z storyline. So if you can’t count the movies you can’t count GT. Give up on that and continue with the Goku/Supes argument. ---
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| 22 Sep 2006 03:49 pm |
Manchester Black Guest | And as I have said earlier the current Supes(Post-Crisis) is canon. Also you guys should be happy considering he’s the weakest form of Supes. | |
| 22 Sep 2006 03:51 pm |
you are smart Rep: 48  Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 16,610 OFFLINE | WHy is everyone calling him Supes? ---
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| 22 Sep 2006 03:53 pm |
Manchester Black Guest | Atresac wrote:
WHy is everyone calling him Supes?
I call him Supes because it requires less typing, I don’t know about everyone else. | |
| 22 Sep 2006 04:14 pm |
Guardian of MvC Rep: 83  Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 44,426 OFFLINE | ditto ---
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| 22 Sep 2006 04:17 pm |
you are smart Rep: 48  Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 16,610 OFFLINE | you only save three keystrokes. ---
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