| 03 Feb 2007 03:50 pm |
Strange little girl Rep: 43  Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 7,071 | the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
*sigh* The US did not enter WW2 until Pearl Harbour was attacked, and the government knew the Germans were about to attack, but let it happen, so they had an excuse to go to war
That’s the government, not the people and the soldiers that fought. There is more than just the governments and the politics but I think we should have entered earlier before that happened.
oh my bad.. it’s ok if you are lied to, so long as you believe the lie.. forgot about that
What are you talking about? I just agreed with you but said that the government is not the people and the JAPANESE attacked, not the Germans.
He meant Japanese. Lighten up a little 
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 | | 03 Feb 2007 03:51 pm |
King of the Gamer Army Rep: 33 Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 14,674 OFFLINE | Etain wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
*sigh* The US did not enter WW2 until Pearl Harbour was attacked, and the government knew the Germans were about to attack, but let it happen, so they had an excuse to go to war
That’s the government, not the people and the soldiers that fought. There is more than just the governments and the politics but I think we should have entered earlier before that happened.
oh my bad.. it’s ok if you are lied to, so long as you believe the lie.. forgot about that
What are you talking about? I just agreed with you but said that the government is not the people and the JAPANESE attacked, not the Germans.
He meant Japanese. Lighten up a little
Just debating, I’m not mad.
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 the21gamer wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Did you hear me? I’m a bigger better pussy than you’ll ever be.
Wtf...
| | | 03 Feb 2007 03:52 pm |
King of the Gamer Army Rep: 33Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 14,674 OFFLINE | Savage Snake wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
*sigh* The US did not enter WW2 until Pearl Harbour was attacked, and the government knew the Germans were about to attack, but let it happen, so they had an excuse to go to war
That’s the government, not the people and the soldiers that fought. There is more than just the governments and the politics but I think we should have entered earlier before that happened.
oh my bad.. it’s ok if you are lied to, so long as you believe the lie.. forgot about that
What are you talking about? I just agreed with you but said that the government is not the people and the JAPANESE attacked, not the Germans.
but the Germans convinced them to do it.
I know. they even sent a sub to Japan but it never made it cause the war ended and it decided to turn itself in.
---
the21gamer wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Did you hear me? I’m a bigger better pussy than you’ll ever be.
Wtf...
| | | 03 Feb 2007 03:52 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 8 Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,566 ONLINE | the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
*sigh* The US did not enter WW2 until Pearl Harbour was attacked, and the government knew the Germans were about to attack, but let it happen, so they had an excuse to go to war
That’s the government, not the people and the soldiers that fought. There is more than just the governments and the politics but I think we should have entered earlier before that happened.
oh my bad.. it’s ok if you are lied to, so long as you believe the lie.. forgot about that
What are you talking about? I just agreed with you but said that the government is not the people and the JAPANESE attacked, not the Germans.
You didn’t agree with me lol
and I edited the “German” to Japanese as soon as I replied, not soon enough I guess
and let me put it this way.. “If you attack someone for a lie, then you are no better than the lie"
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"The Problem with the English language is that it is as pure as a crib-house whore. it has chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary."
 | | | 03 Feb 2007 03:53 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 8Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,566 ONLINE | Anyways, I’ve lost interest in this Philosophy thread.. nice attempt at a worthwhile thread though, until the Peanut Gallery showed up
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"The Problem with the English language is that it is as pure as a crib-house whore. it has chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary."
| | | 03 Feb 2007 03:53 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 0  Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 2,132 OFFLINE | *Writes that down*
| | | 03 Feb 2007 03:54 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 0Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 2,132 OFFLINE | How bout life after death?
| | | 03 Feb 2007 03:54 pm |
King of the Gamer Army Rep: 33Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 14,674 OFFLINE | James R. LeClair wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
the21gamer wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
*sigh* The US did not enter WW2 until Pearl Harbour was attacked, and the government knew the Germans were about to attack, but let it happen, so they had an excuse to go to war
That’s the government, not the people and the soldiers that fought. There is more than just the governments and the politics but I think we should have entered earlier before that happened.
oh my bad.. it’s ok if you are lied to, so long as you believe the lie.. forgot about that
What are you talking about? I just agreed with you but said that the government is not the people and the JAPANESE attacked, not the Germans.
You didn’t agree with me lol
and I edited the “German” to Japanese as soon as I replied, not soon enough I guess
and let me put it this way.. “ If you attack someone for a lie, then you are no better than the lie“
The government, not the people. You can’t just combine the 2.
The people’s reasons can be entirely separate.
Wanting to free the people in the camps is not a lie.
You are also unclear about your lie. I am assuming it is Pearl Harbor?
If what you say about the government knowing and letting it happen is true then it was BOTH Japan and the government, not just the government.
There can be more than just 2 sides.
---
the21gamer wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Did you hear me? I’m a bigger better pussy than you’ll ever be.
Wtf...
Last edited 03 Feb 2007 03:58 pm by the21gamer | | | 03 Feb 2007 03:56 pm |
Strange little girl Rep: 43Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 7,071 | James R. LeClair wrote:
Anyways, I’ve lost interest in this Philosophy thread.. nice attempt at a worthwhile thread though, until the Peanut Gallery showed up
Maybe it could still be redeemed as a Philosophy thread? (And I do hope I’m not part of the “peanut gallery” lol)
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| | | 03 Feb 2007 03:58 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 0Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 2,132 OFFLINE | Its to political to really understand anyway.
| | | 03 Feb 2007 04:12 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 8Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,566 ONLINE | Etain wrote:
James R. LeClair wrote:
Anyways, I’ve lost interest in this Philosophy thread.. nice attempt at a worthwhile thread though, until the Peanut Gallery showed up
Maybe it could still be redeemed as a Philosophy thread? (And I do hope I’m not part of the “peanut gallery” lol)
the “peanut Gallery” are the cheap-seat intelectuals with an unfounded opinion
and there can be no redemption on MC, where “Post Count” determines experience
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"The Problem with the English language is that it is as pure as a crib-house whore. it has chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary."
| | | 03 Feb 2007 05:57 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 5 Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1,037 OFFLINE | Hmmm, there’s a couple of points here i’m not clear on...
I did history in school (like everybody), and like many i got a grade in it (though it wasn’t a high one), and anyway ive forgotten far too much on history to be able to give details now, however.....
Isn’t it true that all the soldiers are employed to do their job, regardless of personal opinions?
And if the war is ran by a non-military or governed assigned control, then it has no 'bosses' and is known as a 'riot', reagrdless of its size?
And that if a government lies to its general population, nobody may/will know unless the truth is released some way?
And do people not 'naturally' group together to defend the nearest 'safety' mass they live in?
Consider this -
A person will defend themselves above all things.
That person will defend that persons family next.
Then they will defend the neigbours, or the street they live in.
Then a locality (a town etc.)
Then the country they reside in.
And finally, if little green men do excist, we will all join forces to wipe them out.
We all 'must' live to forward & maintain our own needs, whether personal, local, or national. And we will all act on the information we have to hand - not try to be 'clever' because we know the truth many years later. The only thing to be done with these 'truths' that we now know, is surely to use our new knowledge, and avoid those problems again next time (if we can).
Any country that went to war in WWII, and in the following wars, did so, and unless at the 'moment' of the war starting, each individual says “Hey, stop, no way are we gonna fight them, because........" then the fact that lies introduced the wars is not really relevant i don’t think.
Nobody knows what another is thinking, ever. We can only perceive the reality which each of us, as an idividual, sees & lives with.
That was all that i just grabbed from my small brain anyway.
I hate wars. But i also don’t wanna be enslaved, or starve to death, or die from disease through lack of inter-social activities and repairs, so until we have instant magic, we must live with out odd, and often greedy & self-servicing governemnts.
=========================================================================
Unfortunatly, as Leonard Nemoy once said -
“The needs of the many, outway the needs of the few”
(“and there are soooo many people, and they are all so darned 'needy'." Yes, i know he didnt say that, but i think he may have, but craoked in the film he was in at the time  )
*phil accepts his 'peanut award with honours' - hey thanks everybody*
i may edit this later, cos im too hungry to think just now
| | | 03 Feb 2007 06:36 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 8Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,566 ONLINE | If I take a life, in defense of my own, then I will deal with that when I die..
If I take a life in defense of my government? I’m an idiot..
If I take many lives, of people who have done nothing to me? I’m a mass murderer
If you kill anyone but those directly responsible? You’re going to come back and live your own personal hell
So... Let’s see.. Who attacked the US? Bin Laden.. Who’s dead? Hussein.
Who flew into the towers? Saudi Arabians... Who’s dying? Iraqi’s..
why?
Because Saudi Arabia owns %7 of all american money and you can’t kill those who own you
Who does the US defend? Israel
why?
Because they believe in God and own %10 of America
it’s all about the money, those who loan you money are worthy of defending.. Those who piss off your creditors are the enemy
Do some research into IBM and the Holocaust http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/
IBM made money renting computers(you couldn’t buy them then, you had to rent) to the Germans, so they could keep track of their war machine, and the concentration camps.. all while the CEO of IBM was best friends with the US president.. But he couldn’t turn over all that info cause IBM made worldwide record profits during the great depression, thanks to organizing the Nazi’s
“As the Third Reich embarked upon its plan of conquest and genocide, IBM and its subsidiaries helped create enabling technologies, step-by-step, from the identification and cataloging programs of the 1930s to the selections of the 1940s.
Only after Jews were identified — a massive and complex task that Hitler wanted done immediately — could they be targeted for efficient asset confiscation, ghettoization, deportation, enslaved labor, and, ultimately, annihilation. It was a cross-tabulation and organizational challenge so monumental, it called for a computer. Of course, in the 1930s no computer existed.
But IBM’s Hollerith punch card technology did exist. Aided by the company’s custom-designed and constantly updated Hollerith systems, Hitler was able to automate his persecution of the Jews. Historians have always been amazed at the speed and accuracy with which the Nazis were able to identify and locate European Jewry. Until now, the pieces of this puzzle have never been fully assembled. The fact is, IBM technology was used to organize nearly everything in Germany and then Nazi Europe, from the identification of the Jews in censuses, registrations, and ancestral tracing programs to the running of railroads and organizing of concentration camp slave labor."
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"The Problem with the English language is that it is as pure as a crib-house whore. it has chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary."
| | | 03 Feb 2007 06:48 pm |
Strange little girl Rep: 43Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 7,071 | Wow James - I was completely unaware of that.
Phil - I agree with some of the things you’re saying, but I fail to see how it is irrelevant to analyze how a past war was based on lies. We still see this happening today, and if we don’t learn from the past we will just keep repeating the same mistakes.
Also, you did acknowledge that we can be lied to by those in power....so if we don’t learn to be critical thinkers we will accept these lies. When we learn to question and to investigate beyond the material we’re force-fed, then change can start to come about.
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| | | 03 Feb 2007 06:54 pm |
Nyarlathotep Rep: 12 Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 6,923 ONLINE | The past has shown(and is shown by France continuously), if you want to change the government, you have to riot. Storm the place where the leaders stay. Pull them out, and replace them. And sometimes, kill them.
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Not dead that which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons death may die.
- H. P. Lovecraft Join the Order | | | 03 Feb 2007 06:55 pm |
Strange little girl Rep: 43Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 7,071 | ChaosSpartan wrote:
The past has shown(and is shown by France continuously), if you want to change the government, you have to riot. Storm the place where the leaders stay. Pull them out, and replace them. And sometimes, kill them.
Ah but then the problem with that is history has also repeatedly shown that those who attempt to oust tyrants by force wind up becoming tyrants themselves...
You know the saying “absolute power corrupts absolutely”?
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Last edited 03 Feb 2007 06:56 pm by Etain | | | 03 Feb 2007 07:17 pm |
Nyarlathotep Rep: 12Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 6,923 ONLINE | yes, I’ve heard that saying before.
I dunno. Louis XIV came from the new gov ahaha
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Not dead that which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons death may die.
- H. P. Lovecraft Join the Order | | | 03 Feb 2007 09:40 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 0Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 2,132 OFFLINE | Look, I’m not going to say that War is wrong, but I will say that nobody, not even God his almighty self, could stop it. Philosophy is a way for inteligent men and women to come together and write down their beliefs. I might not know much about the political part of war, and mainly I don’t care. The reasons why were in Iraq, I also don’t care. I care about bringing a little peice of heaven to this earth, no matter what I’ll need to give, I’ll do it.
Everything has changed since the Holocost and people have changed along with it. War is no longer a fight for freedom, but a fight for land and wealth. The way I see it, we’ll never see another war like that in a long time, if not ever.
What is going on in Iraq, is not a war. No, it is an Operation. An exscuse for getting the richest thing on the face of the earth. That my friends is oil. That is America’s war, the political war.
Over 100 people died recently because a group of men believed that they would be in a place where all their wildest sex dreams would come true. A group of terrorist who believe in sacrafice to go to heaven. People who have no concern for other people’s lives and don’t care who or what they kill, wheather its woman, children, they just don’t care.
My war lied under the Stars and Stripes. It was more personal then that, something that none of you will understand. Now I realized why I was trully there for. The people and most of all for the children. I knew if I could save one childs life, then it could result in saving that childs kids and grand kids. I would be saving the future, bring a little piece to them for the price of their smiles and laughter. That is my War.
I will keep fighting terrorism for as long as possible. To stop evil men from hurting the good. Evil will only win when good men do nothing. It is not a politcal thing for me, it goes above and beyond that. That is the true meaning of war. In order to have peice, there must, one way or another, be war.
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