| 13 Jun 2007 03:50 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27  Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Tha King wrote:
yes agreed the world is still warming up from the last ice age it is just a cycle there is nothing to worry about
Wrong.
I don’t understand how you guys can just sit here and say 'oh Global Warming is due to some cycle thing that I barely understand'. Since when did you lot know more than the thousands of scientists in the world who have verified Global Warming’s existence? More specifically, that it’s anthropogenic? How many of you even know what that means?. The cause and existence is no longer under discussion in the serious scientific world.
Seriously, get your heads out of your asses. To think you know better than the best minds in the world is a total fallacy, and displays an untold level of arrogance.
You claim that AGW is the result of the planet’s natural cycle. Do you even understand that? Do you understand how many there are? Don’t make wild accusations at the expense of the scientific community when you know nothing of the subject.
Secondly, you claim that it’s nothing to worry about. This shows your total lack of understanding of how the complex cycles and systems of this planet works. Even slight heating of the atmosphere is catastrophic. The last time the planet’s mean temperature rose by 6 degrees; 95% of life on earth was wiped out and the sea and air turned acidic.
And what’s the current prediction for temperature rise? 6 degrees by 2080. Bearing in mind that the last rise took several thousand years, as opposed to 100, that’s pretty catastrophic. And the even more devestating news? 6 degrees is a highly conservative estimate, and many scientists agree that 10 degrees is more likely. With news coming out last month that the planet’s Carbon stores are failing (do you know what those are? Can you name them? Their capacity and impact? I doubt it), and last week’s news that AGW may be occurring 3 times faster than previously predicted, do you not think that’s something to worry about?
At the very least, food shortages will be dire and famine will be common place. At the same time, sea level rise is going to result in almost every major city in the world being underwater, along with 2/3 of the world’s population. Obviously they won’t all drown, but instead they’ll move inland. How easy do you think it will be to find homes for 7 billion displaced people (bearing in mind that the planet’s population will have reached 10 billion by this point at least)? Also, the world’s economic centres will be submerged. The economic upheaval will be staggering.
My point is, before you blindly state that AGW doesn’t exist, or perhaps more stunningly, that is isn’t a problem, do some reading. Research it. Don’t just blindly accept the line that someone told you once because it’s the easiest thing to accept.
The debate is no longer 'does Anthropogenic Global Warming exist?', it is now 'will the human race survive it?'.
BULLSHIT.
You hippies are just jumping to conclusions without fact.
All you’re doing is putting together a random ass theory and going insane over it.
There are way too many factors and such for you idiots to be able to say what is actually causing it and no, global warming takes a long time.
Don’t bullshit with temperatures idiots made up that happened years ago when they weren’t even there to take the temperatures. The hottest day ever could have been a thousand years ago for all you hippies know.
Not everyday is going to be cool you dimwits. Sometimes it’s going to be hot. Not every year is going to have the same average temperature. Deal with it like a man.
Before you claim we’re all going to die why don’t you morons go get some hard ass facts instead of putting together some random theories.
Read the fucking links, you ignorant, arrogant fuck.
All the 'crackpot theories' are backed up by peer reviewed science, that is cold, hard fact. If you read through the first link, you’ll see the science, and every claim is supported by the science from the Mauna Lao CO2 monitering station in Hawaii, and the data from the Vostok Ice cores, taken in the Antarctic, and also many years of research, data from the Solar energy monitoring satellites (which interestingly, show a slight decrease in the sun’s output since 1940) and simple lab-scale experiments. How can you possibly claim it’s not backed up by science?
Oh, that’s right; because you’re a dumb, ignorant fuck, who doesn’t want to believe he has any responsibility for this planet.
Claiming that we werent there to measure temperatures over the last few thousand years and thus can’t predict anything is utter, utter bullshit, and shows just how ignorant you are. There are dozens of different ways to find the average temperature over the last 400,000 years, not least the Vostok Ice Cores, but also Tree Ring Dating, Fossilised Pollen Dating and by scanning rocks for trapped atmospheric chemical content. Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Nobody in the world with a serious scientific background doubts that we know the temperatures over the last 400,000 years or more. Just you, because you don’t understand it.
The only bit of that diatribe that you were even close to correct on was claiming that GW takes thousands of years. Yes, it does. With natural cycles, it takes 10-20 thousand years for the temperature to rise by 2-3 degrees. We’ve seen 0.8 degrees rise since 1980. Steep rise much? If you’d read the fucking graphs instead of dismissing everything I wrote, you’d plainly see that. The reason why the scientific community is all fucking panicing, is because the warming is so fucking fast. At the same time, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased at the same rate. Fucking fast. It’s quite easy to spot the link there.
The fact that you claim that 'there are just hot days, you have to deal with it', shows that you are completely clueless of the current situation. It’s an overall, extreme, warming trend. Nobody panics about one exceptionally hot day during summer. These things happen naturally. What is alarming is the fact that we’ve had so many in such a short time. And, I pose the point again, what the fuck makes you think you know better than the scientific community? I’m dying to know. Maybe you can enlighten the world with that vital piece of data or knowledge that the brightest minds on the planet have missed?
Or maybe as I suspect, you know nothing of the science involved, and prefer to rubbish the accepted science than to counter it. Perhaps that’s why you sunk to the low of insulting me, rather than supporting your own arguement with science. Because you cannot counter my science, and you’re not sufficiently intelligent enough to come up with a constructive, supported counter arguement. Yeah, that seems more likely.
You my friend are worse than those Creationist morons. Right infront of you, I laid out the Science and the proof of the theories. All you had to do is read.
But no. Instead, you blindly shout “hippy”. Fine. Whatever. Last time I checked, I wasn’t a tree-hugging, drug-taking flower-arranger.
Nor were the thousands of scientists who made this research.
So who is the one here with crackpot theories and speculation? I wrote the scientific consensus with supporting data.
All you’ve done is insult me. So how about you back up your claim with supporting data?
You arrogant, ignorant tool. If anyone here has been blindly accepting what others tell him, it’s you.
Why don’t you read the link and notice that it is ALL SPECULATION you arrogant little fuck monkey.
And notice how I used SCIENCE to counter science such as us not being there to measure the temperature millions of years ago and the fact that an experiment is USELESS if it is not a CONTROLLED experiment, which none of these things or 'facts' you have stated were controlled, meaning it is all just speculation as to what the cause is and no, the world is not going to burn to death in the next century.
Learn to live with the weather little fuck monkey.
And just so you know you little fuck monkey, ONLY HALF the scientific community is going with that theory while the other half is AGAINST.
What makes you think the entire scientific community is stupid enough to assume your BS is true without any actual evidence and ONLY speculation?
OOOOOOHHHH! OWNED fuck monkey!!!
For the last freaking time.
If you read my first link, you’d see the science backs everything that has been said up. So your point is null.
Shut up and read, mmkay?
Once you’ve read all the data, you’ll understand how all these 'valid reasons' that could cause GW simply aren’t, for a variety of reasons. Until then, someone as misinformed as yourself can’t make any kind of comment on such a complicated global system.
Evidence that the scientific community is split exactly half and half please? There isn’t any, don’t be so ridiculous. The vast majority of scientists understand that AGW exists, as do the vast majority of intelligent human beings.
The 'science' you used to counter my claims is entirely speculation on your part, due to the fact that you simply don’t understand the methods used. That’s not my problem.
I call again for a reasoned, developed counter arguement with links to your sources and relevant research. Or is that too much to ask from someone as backward as yourself?
And all those links are speculation. 
Here is proof that the scientific community is split on the cause, what is really happening and such.
We are right he arguing.
What about it’s a theory out of MANY other theories regarding global warming do you not understand?
For all we know it could be your gas that is fucking up this world.
Have you ever thought of the MANY MANY other possible factors?
No? Then you are the blind one.
Want proof?
In England they had to stop their farm animals from being so gaseous from eating all that shit because it was fucking up the air.
Pollution is ONLY a possible cause because we have no goddam proof that it is pollution because we have NEVER had a controlled experiment on the subject.
In science it is NOT considered fact until many many controlled experiments are done on it and they prove that it is fact, which there have been none on global warming.
Now you show me the controlled experiments before you pass it off as fact.
Before you talk about science how about you learn the basics of science first because science NEVER assumes something right because it is a process, which you shitheads have not followed.
Speculation?
No, me knowing the scientific process is NOT speculation you dipshit. It’s called fact.
You have only come up with a theory and until you can prove that theory correct through a CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT it is NOTHING MORE than a theory.
Because did you know that global warming being natural is also a theory made by scientists that disagree with yours.
And here’s a scientist from way back when that disagrees with you.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010615071248.htm
See? Instead of jumping to conclusions on global warming and that the scientific community is not split on this you should step back and realize your theory is just a theory. We have yet to find out what is really happening.
Oooohhhhh!!! You have just been 'WTFPWND'!!!
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
 Last edited 13 Jun 2007 04:13 pm by Online Predator | | | | 13 Jun 2007 03:51 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | Gunslang wrote:
On presenting information and persuasive writting.
Start by briefly stating your argument, then take multiple sources from different locations, remember to cross reference each source and provide information supporting each side of your argument to balance it. Use your own knowledge or opinions where applicable, finish with a summary and conclusion.
And don’t say 'fuck monkey'...
Actually, don’t direct an insult towards anyone your trying to persuade, because this immediately lowers the value of your opinion and leaves you open to (Very justified) criticism and verbal counter attacks.
Then tell your bitch not to call me a fuck just because I understand the fact that it is JUST speculation.
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 04:19 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6 Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | Hmmm... right there, that was the point where anything posted under the user name Online Predator became immediately unworthy of being read. For me anyway.
But it did remind me, drum, you’re too FUCKING AGGRESSIVE when your explaining things.
Mmmm, hypocrisy. ---
 Last edited 13 Jun 2007 04:19 pm by Gunslang | | | 13 Jun 2007 04:23 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | Gunslang wrote:
Hmmm... right there, that was the point where anything posted under the user name Online Predator became immediately unworthy of being read. For me anyway.
But it did remind me, drum, you’re too FUCKING AGGRESSIVE when your explaining things.
Mmmm, hypocrisy.
And the reason I’m not taking this seriously is because she is jumping to conclusions.
All I’m saying is we don’t know yet, which according to her makes me automatically blind.
Unlike her I see all sides of this. I am open to the idea that it may us but that at the moment has not been proven, only supported as has other theories.
Anything posted under her name is what is unworthy of being read until she stop calling everybody that disagrees with her fucks and blind fools.
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
Last edited 13 Jun 2007 04:24 pm by Online Predator | | | 13 Jun 2007 04:48 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | Drum is a guy...
if your using 'she' and 'her' as insults.. thats kinda lame and immature.
and if your wondering why I’m reading your posts after saying they are unworthy of being read, well... what is worthy of being read on the internet these days? ---
Last edited 13 Jun 2007 04:48 pm by Gunslang | | | 13 Jun 2007 04:54 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | He’s a guy?
lol
He was so hippie I actually thought he was a girl and I’m not a joke. lol
Hhhmmm...nothing. ---
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 05:04 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | stereotypical bastard
lol zOMGabc rofl
| | | 13 Jun 2007 05:35 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 24 Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 1,618 OFFLINE | Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Tha King wrote:
yes agreed the world is still warming up from the last ice age it is just a cycle there is nothing to worry about
Wrong.
I don’t understand how you guys can just sit here and say 'oh Global Warming is due to some cycle thing that I barely understand'. Since when did you lot know more than the thousands of scientists in the world who have verified Global Warming’s existence? More specifically, that it’s anthropogenic? How many of you even know what that means?. The cause and existence is no longer under discussion in the serious scientific world.
Seriously, get your heads out of your asses. To think you know better than the best minds in the world is a total fallacy, and displays an untold level of arrogance.
You claim that AGW is the result of the planet’s natural cycle. Do you even understand that? Do you understand how many there are? Don’t make wild accusations at the expense of the scientific community when you know nothing of the subject.
Secondly, you claim that it’s nothing to worry about. This shows your total lack of understanding of how the complex cycles and systems of this planet works. Even slight heating of the atmosphere is catastrophic. The last time the planet’s mean temperature rose by 6 degrees; 95% of life on earth was wiped out and the sea and air turned acidic.
And what’s the current prediction for temperature rise? 6 degrees by 2080. Bearing in mind that the last rise took several thousand years, as opposed to 100, that’s pretty catastrophic. And the even more devestating news? 6 degrees is a highly conservative estimate, and many scientists agree that 10 degrees is more likely. With news coming out last month that the planet’s Carbon stores are failing (do you know what those are? Can you name them? Their capacity and impact? I doubt it), and last week’s news that AGW may be occurring 3 times faster than previously predicted, do you not think that’s something to worry about?
At the very least, food shortages will be dire and famine will be common place. At the same time, sea level rise is going to result in almost every major city in the world being underwater, along with 2/3 of the world’s population. Obviously they won’t all drown, but instead they’ll move inland. How easy do you think it will be to find homes for 7 billion displaced people (bearing in mind that the planet’s population will have reached 10 billion by this point at least)? Also, the world’s economic centres will be submerged. The economic upheaval will be staggering.
My point is, before you blindly state that AGW doesn’t exist, or perhaps more stunningly, that is isn’t a problem, do some reading. Research it. Don’t just blindly accept the line that someone told you once because it’s the easiest thing to accept.
The debate is no longer 'does Anthropogenic Global Warming exist?', it is now 'will the human race survive it?'.
BULLSHIT.
You hippies are just jumping to conclusions without fact.
All you’re doing is putting together a random ass theory and going insane over it.
There are way too many factors and such for you idiots to be able to say what is actually causing it and no, global warming takes a long time.
Don’t bullshit with temperatures idiots made up that happened years ago when they weren’t even there to take the temperatures. The hottest day ever could have been a thousand years ago for all you hippies know.
Not everyday is going to be cool you dimwits. Sometimes it’s going to be hot. Not every year is going to have the same average temperature. Deal with it like a man.
Before you claim we’re all going to die why don’t you morons go get some hard ass facts instead of putting together some random theories.
Read the fucking links, you ignorant, arrogant fuck.
All the 'crackpot theories' are backed up by peer reviewed science, that is cold, hard fact. If you read through the first link, you’ll see the science, and every claim is supported by the science from the Mauna Lao CO2 monitering station in Hawaii, and the data from the Vostok Ice cores, taken in the Antarctic, and also many years of research, data from the Solar energy monitoring satellites (which interestingly, show a slight decrease in the sun’s output since 1940) and simple lab-scale experiments. How can you possibly claim it’s not backed up by science?
Oh, that’s right; because you’re a dumb, ignorant fuck, who doesn’t want to believe he has any responsibility for this planet.
Claiming that we werent there to measure temperatures over the last few thousand years and thus can’t predict anything is utter, utter bullshit, and shows just how ignorant you are. There are dozens of different ways to find the average temperature over the last 400,000 years, not least the Vostok Ice Cores, but also Tree Ring Dating, Fossilised Pollen Dating and by scanning rocks for trapped atmospheric chemical content. Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Nobody in the world with a serious scientific background doubts that we know the temperatures over the last 400,000 years or more. Just you, because you don’t understand it.
The only bit of that diatribe that you were even close to correct on was claiming that GW takes thousands of years. Yes, it does. With natural cycles, it takes 10-20 thousand years for the temperature to rise by 2-3 degrees. We’ve seen 0.8 degrees rise since 1980. Steep rise much? If you’d read the fucking graphs instead of dismissing everything I wrote, you’d plainly see that. The reason why the scientific community is all fucking panicing, is because the warming is so fucking fast. At the same time, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased at the same rate. Fucking fast. It’s quite easy to spot the link there.
The fact that you claim that 'there are just hot days, you have to deal with it', shows that you are completely clueless of the current situation. It’s an overall, extreme, warming trend. Nobody panics about one exceptionally hot day during summer. These things happen naturally. What is alarming is the fact that we’ve had so many in such a short time. And, I pose the point again, what the fuck makes you think you know better than the scientific community? I’m dying to know. Maybe you can enlighten the world with that vital piece of data or knowledge that the brightest minds on the planet have missed?
Or maybe as I suspect, you know nothing of the science involved, and prefer to rubbish the accepted science than to counter it. Perhaps that’s why you sunk to the low of insulting me, rather than supporting your own arguement with science. Because you cannot counter my science, and you’re not sufficiently intelligent enough to come up with a constructive, supported counter arguement. Yeah, that seems more likely.
You my friend are worse than those Creationist morons. Right infront of you, I laid out the Science and the proof of the theories. All you had to do is read.
But no. Instead, you blindly shout “hippy”. Fine. Whatever. Last time I checked, I wasn’t a tree-hugging, drug-taking flower-arranger.
Nor were the thousands of scientists who made this research.
So who is the one here with crackpot theories and speculation? I wrote the scientific consensus with supporting data.
All you’ve done is insult me. So how about you back up your claim with supporting data?
You arrogant, ignorant tool. If anyone here has been blindly accepting what others tell him, it’s you.
Why don’t you read the link and notice that it is ALL SPECULATION you arrogant little fuck monkey.
And notice how I used SCIENCE to counter science such as us not being there to measure the temperature millions of years ago and the fact that an experiment is USELESS if it is not a CONTROLLED experiment, which none of these things or 'facts' you have stated were controlled, meaning it is all just speculation as to what the cause is and no, the world is not going to burn to death in the next century.
Learn to live with the weather little fuck monkey.
And just so you know you little fuck monkey, ONLY HALF the scientific community is going with that theory while the other half is AGAINST.
What makes you think the entire scientific community is stupid enough to assume your BS is true without any actual evidence and ONLY speculation?
OOOOOOHHHH! OWNED fuck monkey!!!
For the last freaking time.
If you read my first link, you’d see the science backs everything that has been said up. So your point is null.
Shut up and read, mmkay?
Once you’ve read all the data, you’ll understand how all these 'valid reasons' that could cause GW simply aren’t, for a variety of reasons. Until then, someone as misinformed as yourself can’t make any kind of comment on such a complicated global system.
Evidence that the scientific community is split exactly half and half please? There isn’t any, don’t be so ridiculous. The vast majority of scientists understand that AGW exists, as do the vast majority of intelligent human beings.
The 'science' you used to counter my claims is entirely speculation on your part, due to the fact that you simply don’t understand the methods used. That’s not my problem.
I call again for a reasoned, developed counter arguement with links to your sources and relevant research. Or is that too much to ask from someone as backward as yourself?
And all those links are speculation.
Here is proof that the scientific community is split on the cause, what is really happening and such.
We are right he arguing.
What about it’s a theory out of MANY other theories regarding global warming do you not understand?
For all we know it could be your gas that is fucking up this world.
Have you ever thought of the MANY MANY other possible factors?
No? Then you are the blind one.
Want proof?
In England they had to stop their farm animals from being so gaseous from eating all that shit because it was fucking up the air.
Pollution is ONLY a possible cause because we have no goddam proof that it is pollution because we have NEVER had a controlled experiment on the subject.
In science it is NOT considered fact until many many controlled experiments are done on it and they prove that it is fact, which there have been none on global warming.
Now you show me the controlled experiments before you pass it off as fact.
Before you talk about science how about you learn the basics of science first because science NEVER assumes something right because it is a process, which you shitheads have not followed.
Speculation?
No, me knowing the scientific process is NOT speculation you dipshit. It’s called fact.
You have only come up with a theory and until you can prove that theory correct through a CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT it is NOTHING MORE than a theory.
Because did you know that global warming being natural is also a theory made by scientists that disagree with yours.
And here’s a scientist from way back when that disagrees with you.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010615071248.htm
See? Instead of jumping to conclusions on global warming and that the scientific community is not split on this you should step back and realize your theory is just a theory. We have yet to find out what is really happening.
Oooohhhhh!!! You have just been 'WTFPWND'!!!
Dear me, you are impetuous.
Let’s see. The page I linked you to, linked to this, with all data taken by air surface measurements. Therefore the graph is scientific fact, right?
Your endless speculation about this not being proved in a lab or controlled environment doesn’t stand, because it was proved in the 19th century, in a lab, under controlled conditions, that CO2 has a radiative forcing effect. Indeed, the first warnings that CO2 might cause a global warming effect emerged in 1896. Infact, the idea that CO2 causes extra heating is such a well established fact, that there’s a simple experiment to prove it to schoolchildren. Try it, it might entertain you for 10 minutes.
Secondly, I have thought about the many other factors, thankyou. I’m studying a degree in Renewable Energy, coupled with a Masters in Climate Change and the world renowned Camborne School of Mines. By the end of my course, I will be one of the most employable people on the planet. I’ve read every piece of data I can get my hands on, supporting both sides of the arguement, and come to the same conclusion as the scientists. So who is going to understand this subject more?
Infact, I’m willing to bet you £500 (that’s approximately $1000 dollars; I know you’re not good at maths) that there will be no ice in the Arctic during summer by 2030. Considering that you think global warming is just a scare over the recent spate of warm weather, and can’t possibly be a global trend, and that the worst predictions cite this event to not occur until 2050, that’s quite a good bet, no? I’m 100% serious. I’ll give you $1000 if there’s still ice in the Arctic in 2030. Deal?
Anyway, back to countering your poorly supported arguement about everything I said being mere speculation with no scientific backing.
You say that there is not scientific consensus, but the recent IPCC reports are some of the most stringently and widely peer-reviewed scientific reports ever compiled. In fact, 2500 scientists are involved directly, and many thousands are indirectly, with such topics as peer reviewing and data examining in mind. The IPCC report has been explicitly endorsed by:
Academia Brasiliera de Ciências (Bazil)
Royal Society of Canada
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academié des Sciences (France)
Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
Indian National Science Academy
Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
Science Council of Japan
Russian Academy of Sciences
Royal Society (United Kingdom)
National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)
Australian Academy of Sciences
Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Royal Irish Academy
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
In addition to these international academies, the following institutions specializing in climate, atmosphere, ocean, and/or earth sciences have endorsed or published the same conclusions as presented in the TAR report:
NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Royal Society of the United Kingdom (RS)
American Geophysical Union (AGU)
American Institute of Physics (AIP)
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)
American Meteorological Society (AMS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)
So the question remains; if this is not scientific consensus, what in the world would a consensus look like?
Oh right, yeah, they’re all collaborating in some kind of giant conspiracy...
Your constant bashing of the theory because it hasn’t been proved directly is also quite frankly, astonishing. Can you prove in a lab situation that the Theory of Relativity is correct? Or that the Theory of Evolution is valid? You simply cannot prove some theories, but the next best thing in science is talking about the theory’s probability of being correct. Infact, probability is the very language of science; there are many, many accepted facts that are actually just 'theory', because they simply cannot be proved. In a vast system such as the earth, proof is not possible, when referring to climate change, and I accept that. But how much proof do you need before you call something fact? Your argueing about theory not being accepted until proven shows your deep lack of understanding of how the scientific world works.
Look around you. There is simply no doubt that the earth is warming. If you doubt that, I’d be very concerned.
The fact is, once you look at all the evidence, the other possible theories just do not explain the unmatched levels of heating we’ve seen recently. Just to run one of these theories down for you;
Heating caused by fluctuations of the sun’s output - the sun’s output has been falling slightly since 1978, the exact time that temperature has been rising fastest
If you’d like to throw any more theories that explain why I’m wrong at me, I’m dying to see them, supported with evidence. I look forward to debunking them for you.
Weapon of Mass Percussion
SoB AdminLast edited 13 Jun 2007 05:44 pm by DrumIntoTheNight | | | 13 Jun 2007 05:47 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | You NEVER call something fact in science like that.
It is all probability.
Not good in math? And look who’s not good in science. You don’t even have the basics of science correct.
Wow, a couple universities and such out of how many? That shows a lot.
Have you gone back thousands of years ago or even a century ago to take the temperature of the atmosphere? No? Then how can you go insane over a temperature increase?
For all you know this could just be a normal thing that happens every century or so.
If you have not been paying attention the world’s weather is NEVER 'normal' because it is always changing.
Just showing how many people back you up isn’t proof and links to speculation is not proof. There are so many things in the air that it could be anything.
In the end it ONLY a possibility no matter how much speculation you make.
Now debunk that.
I dare you try because the answer is you can’t. ---
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 05:51 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | And you’re studying renewable energy? LMFAO
Who the hell are you?
I bet you’re some kid trying to act all smart over the internet just by repeating what some scientist or liberal said.
The funny thing is throughout this whole topic you have been doing nothing but repeating what others have said and posting random links as if links will automatically make it fact.
LMFAO
You are hilarious. ---
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 06:17 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | Hes the future, maaaaaan. The future!
You have to actually click on the links to get the full effect, dude. ---
| | | 13 Jun 2007 06:24 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | Gunslang wrote:
Hes the future, maaaaaan. The future!
You have to actually click on the links to get the full effect, dude.
I have been and I’m not stupid to believe everything I read.
It’s nothing but speculation as they are piecing together the puzzle.
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 06:39 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | then how do you know that your opinion isn’t just speculation?
This could turn into a philosophical debate at the drop of a hat. :s ---
| | | 13 Jun 2007 06:44 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | Gunslang wrote:
then how do you know that your opinion isn’t just speculation?
This could turn into a philosophical debate at the drop of a hat. :s
I haven’t even stated my opinion.
I just stated a fact, that his theory is not yet proven.
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 06:55 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | Yet it fits.
Just like some of the others.
Possibly, just like yours.
Who’s to say that they’re not all right, or all wrong?
Sure, Drum is stubborn, but at least hes got enough evidence to come to the conclusion he has made and support it. whilst you stubbornly dismiss it instantly.
I don’t agree with everything he’s said, but does that mean I’m right, and hes wrong? ---
| | | 13 Jun 2007 07:00 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 10 Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 4,424 OFFLINE | DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
DrumIntoTheNight wrote:
Tha King wrote:
yes agreed the world is still warming up from the last ice age it is just a cycle there is nothing to worry about
Wrong.
I don’t understand how you guys can just sit here and say 'oh Global Warming is due to some cycle thing that I barely understand'. Since when did you lot know more than the thousands of scientists in the world who have verified Global Warming’s existence? More specifically, that it’s anthropogenic? How many of you even know what that means?. The cause and existence is no longer under discussion in the serious scientific world.
Seriously, get your heads out of your asses. To think you know better than the best minds in the world is a total fallacy, and displays an untold level of arrogance.
You claim that AGW is the result of the planet’s natural cycle. Do you even understand that? Do you understand how many there are? Don’t make wild accusations at the expense of the scientific community when you know nothing of the subject.
Secondly, you claim that it’s nothing to worry about. This shows your total lack of understanding of how the complex cycles and systems of this planet works. Even slight heating of the atmosphere is catastrophic. The last time the planet’s mean temperature rose by 6 degrees; 95% of life on earth was wiped out and the sea and air turned acidic.
And what’s the current prediction for temperature rise? 6 degrees by 2080. Bearing in mind that the last rise took several thousand years, as opposed to 100, that’s pretty catastrophic. And the even more devestating news? 6 degrees is a highly conservative estimate, and many scientists agree that 10 degrees is more likely. With news coming out last month that the planet’s Carbon stores are failing (do you know what those are? Can you name them? Their capacity and impact? I doubt it), and last week’s news that AGW may be occurring 3 times faster than previously predicted, do you not think that’s something to worry about?
At the very least, food shortages will be dire and famine will be common place. At the same time, sea level rise is going to result in almost every major city in the world being underwater, along with 2/3 of the world’s population. Obviously they won’t all drown, but instead they’ll move inland. How easy do you think it will be to find homes for 7 billion displaced people (bearing in mind that the planet’s population will have reached 10 billion by this point at least)? Also, the world’s economic centres will be submerged. The economic upheaval will be staggering.
My point is, before you blindly state that AGW doesn’t exist, or perhaps more stunningly, that is isn’t a problem, do some reading. Research it. Don’t just blindly accept the line that someone told you once because it’s the easiest thing to accept.
The debate is no longer 'does Anthropogenic Global Warming exist?', it is now 'will the human race survive it?'.
BULLSHIT.
You hippies are just jumping to conclusions without fact.
All you’re doing is putting together a random ass theory and going insane over it.
There are way too many factors and such for you idiots to be able to say what is actually causing it and no, global warming takes a long time.
Don’t bullshit with temperatures idiots made up that happened years ago when they weren’t even there to take the temperatures. The hottest day ever could have been a thousand years ago for all you hippies know.
Not everyday is going to be cool you dimwits. Sometimes it’s going to be hot. Not every year is going to have the same average temperature. Deal with it like a man.
Before you claim we’re all going to die why don’t you morons go get some hard ass facts instead of putting together some random theories.
Read the fucking links, you ignorant, arrogant fuck.
All the 'crackpot theories' are backed up by peer reviewed science, that is cold, hard fact. If you read through the first link, you’ll see the science, and every claim is supported by the science from the Mauna Lao CO2 monitering station in Hawaii, and the data from the Vostok Ice cores, taken in the Antarctic, and also many years of research, data from the Solar energy monitoring satellites (which interestingly, show a slight decrease in the sun’s output since 1940) and simple lab-scale experiments. How can you possibly claim it’s not backed up by science?
Oh, that’s right; because you’re a dumb, ignorant fuck, who doesn’t want to believe he has any responsibility for this planet.
Claiming that we werent there to measure temperatures over the last few thousand years and thus can’t predict anything is utter, utter bullshit, and shows just how ignorant you are. There are dozens of different ways to find the average temperature over the last 400,000 years, not least the Vostok Ice Cores, but also Tree Ring Dating, Fossilised Pollen Dating and by scanning rocks for trapped atmospheric chemical content. Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Nobody in the world with a serious scientific background doubts that we know the temperatures over the last 400,000 years or more. Just you, because you don’t understand it.
The only bit of that diatribe that you were even close to correct on was claiming that GW takes thousands of years. Yes, it does. With natural cycles, it takes 10-20 thousand years for the temperature to rise by 2-3 degrees. We’ve seen 0.8 degrees rise since 1980. Steep rise much? If you’d read the fucking graphs instead of dismissing everything I wrote, you’d plainly see that. The reason why the scientific community is all fucking panicing, is because the warming is so fucking fast. At the same time, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased at the same rate. Fucking fast. It’s quite easy to spot the link there.
The fact that you claim that 'there are just hot days, you have to deal with it', shows that you are completely clueless of the current situation. It’s an overall, extreme, warming trend. Nobody panics about one exceptionally hot day during summer. These things happen naturally. What is alarming is the fact that we’ve had so many in such a short time. And, I pose the point again, what the fuck makes you think you know better than the scientific community? I’m dying to know. Maybe you can enlighten the world with that vital piece of data or knowledge that the brightest minds on the planet have missed?
Or maybe as I suspect, you know nothing of the science involved, and prefer to rubbish the accepted science than to counter it. Perhaps that’s why you sunk to the low of insulting me, rather than supporting your own arguement with science. Because you cannot counter my science, and you’re not sufficiently intelligent enough to come up with a constructive, supported counter arguement. Yeah, that seems more likely.
You my friend are worse than those Creationist morons. Right infront of you, I laid out the Science and the proof of the theories. All you had to do is read.
But no. Instead, you blindly shout “hippy”. Fine. Whatever. Last time I checked, I wasn’t a tree-hugging, drug-taking flower-arranger.
Nor were the thousands of scientists who made this research.
So who is the one here with crackpot theories and speculation? I wrote the scientific consensus with supporting data.
All you’ve done is insult me. So how about you back up your claim with supporting data?
You arrogant, ignorant tool. If anyone here has been blindly accepting what others tell him, it’s you.
Why don’t you read the link and notice that it is ALL SPECULATION you arrogant little fuck monkey.
And notice how I used SCIENCE to counter science such as us not being there to measure the temperature millions of years ago and the fact that an experiment is USELESS if it is not a CONTROLLED experiment, which none of these things or 'facts' you have stated were controlled, meaning it is all just speculation as to what the cause is and no, the world is not going to burn to death in the next century.
Learn to live with the weather little fuck monkey.
And just so you know you little fuck monkey, ONLY HALF the scientific community is going with that theory while the other half is AGAINST.
What makes you think the entire scientific community is stupid enough to assume your BS is true without any actual evidence and ONLY speculation?
OOOOOOHHHH! OWNED fuck monkey!!!
For the last freaking time.
If you read my first link, you’d see the science backs everything that has been said up. So your point is null.
Shut up and read, mmkay?
Once you’ve read all the data, you’ll understand how all these 'valid reasons' that could cause GW simply aren’t, for a variety of reasons. Until then, someone as misinformed as yourself can’t make any kind of comment on such a complicated global system.
Evidence that the scientific community is split exactly half and half please? There isn’t any, don’t be so ridiculous. The vast majority of scientists understand that AGW exists, as do the vast majority of intelligent human beings.
The 'science' you used to counter my claims is entirely speculation on your part, due to the fact that you simply don’t understand the methods used. That’s not my problem.
I call again for a reasoned, developed counter arguement with links to your sources and relevant research. Or is that too much to ask from someone as backward as yourself?
And all those links are speculation.
Here is proof that the scientific community is split on the cause, what is really happening and such.
We are right he arguing.
What about it’s a theory out of MANY other theories regarding global warming do you not understand?
For all we know it could be your gas that is fucking up this world.
Have you ever thought of the MANY MANY other possible factors?
No? Then you are the blind one.
Want proof?
In England they had to stop their farm animals from being so gaseous from eating all that shit because it was fucking up the air.
Pollution is ONLY a possible cause because we have no goddam proof that it is pollution because we have NEVER had a controlled experiment on the subject.
In science it is NOT considered fact until many many controlled experiments are done on it and they prove that it is fact, which there have been none on global warming.
Now you show me the controlled experiments before you pass it off as fact.
Before you talk about science how about you learn the basics of science first because science NEVER assumes something right because it is a process, which you shitheads have not followed.
Speculation?
No, me knowing the scientific process is NOT speculation you dipshit. It’s called fact.
You have only come up with a theory and until you can prove that theory correct through a CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT it is NOTHING MORE than a theory.
Because did you know that global warming being natural is also a theory made by scientists that disagree with yours.
And here’s a scientist from way back when that disagrees with you.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010615071248.htm
See? Instead of jumping to conclusions on global warming and that the scientific community is not split on this you should step back and realize your theory is just a theory. We have yet to find out what is really happening.
Oooohhhhh!!! You have just been 'WTFPWND'!!!
Dear me, you are impetuous.
Let’s see. The page I linked you to, linked to this, with all data taken by air surface measurements. Therefore the graph is scientific fact, right?
Your endless speculation about this not being proved in a lab or controlled environment doesn’t stand, because it was proved in the 19th century, in a lab, under controlled conditions, that CO2 has a radiative forcing effect. Indeed, the first warnings that CO2 might cause a global warming effect emerged in 1896. Infact, the idea that CO2 causes extra heating is such a well established fact, that there’s a simple experiment to prove it to schoolchildren. Try it, it might entertain you for 10 minutes.
Secondly, I have thought about the many other factors, thankyou. I’m studying a degree in Renewable Energy, coupled with a Masters in Climate Change and the world renowned Camborne School of Mines. By the end of my course, I will be one of the most employable people on the planet. I’ve read every piece of data I can get my hands on, supporting both sides of the arguement, and come to the same conclusion as the scientists. So who is going to understand this subject more?
Infact, I’m willing to bet you £500 (that’s approximately $1000 dollars; I know you’re not good at maths) that there will be no ice in the Arctic during summer by 2030. Considering that you think global warming is just a scare over the recent spate of warm weather, and can’t possibly be a global trend, and that the worst predictions cite this event to not occur until 2050, that’s quite a good bet, no? I’m 100% serious. I’ll give you $1000 if there’s still ice in the Arctic in 2030. Deal?
Anyway, back to countering your poorly supported arguement about everything I said being mere speculation with no scientific backing.
You say that there is not scientific consensus, but the recent IPCC reports are some of the most stringently and widely peer-reviewed scientific reports ever compiled. In fact, 2500 scientists are involved directly, and many thousands are indirectly, with such topics as peer reviewing and data examining in mind. The IPCC report has been explicitly endorsed by:
Academia Brasiliera de Ciências (Bazil)
Royal Society of Canada
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academié des Sciences (France)
Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
Indian National Science Academy
Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
Science Council of Japan
Russian Academy of Sciences
Royal Society (United Kingdom)
National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)
Australian Academy of Sciences
Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Royal Irish Academy
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
In addition to these international academies, the following institutions specializing in climate, atmosphere, ocean, and/or earth sciences have endorsed or published the same conclusions as presented in the TAR report:
NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Royal Society of the United Kingdom (RS)
American Geophysical Union (AGU)
American Institute of Physics (AIP)
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)
American Meteorological Society (AMS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)
So the question remains; if this is not scientific consensus, what in the world would a consensus look like?
Oh right, yeah, they’re all collaborating in some kind of giant conspiracy...
Your constant bashing of the theory because it hasn’t been proved directly is also quite frankly, astonishing. Can you prove in a lab situation that the Theory of Relativity is correct? Or that the Theory of Evolution is valid? You simply cannot prove some theories, but the next best thing in science is talking about the theory’s probability of being correct. Infact, probability is the very language of science; there are many, many accepted facts that are actually just 'theory', because they simply cannot be proved. In a vast system such as the earth, proof is not possible, when referring to climate change, and I accept that. But how much proof do you need before you call something fact? Your argueing about theory not being accepted until proven shows your deep lack of understanding of how the scientific world works.
Look around you. There is simply no doubt that the earth is warming. If you doubt that, I’d be very concerned.
The fact is, once you look at all the evidence, the other possible theories just do not explain the unmatched levels of heating we’ve seen recently. Just to run one of these theories down for you;
Heating caused by fluctuations of the sun’s output - the sun’s output has been falling slightly since 1978, the exact time that temperature has been rising fastest
If you’d like to throw any more theories that explain why I’m wrong at me, I’m dying to see them, supported with evidence. I look forward to debunking them for you.
lol, wow thats alot of typing. You make some pretty good points, But I still think global warming is a bunch of crap.
Yippie Kai Aye, Motherf*cker!! [size=1]post[/post]: Yea: posting just for the sake of posting is wrong, Now posting to get your post count up is a totally different story. | | | 13 Jun 2007 07:03 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | Gunslang wrote:
Yet it fits.
Just like some of the others.
Possibly, just like yours.
Who’s to say that they’re not all right, or all wrong?
Sure, Drum is stubborn, but at least hes got enough evidence to come to the conclusion he has made and support it. whilst you stubbornly dismiss it instantly.
I don’t agree with everything he’s said, but does that mean I’m right, and hes wrong?
lol
You people are insane.
I never dismissed it.
I just said it wasn’t fact.
I never said it wasn’t possible.
He on the other hand is saying it is fact. You don’t pass off speculation as fact.
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 07:08 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | Online Predator wrote:
Gunslang wrote:
Yet it fits.
Just like some of the others.
Possibly, just like yours.
Who’s to say that they’re not all right, or all wrong?
Sure, Drum is stubborn, but at least hes got enough evidence to come to the conclusion he has made and support it. whilst you stubbornly dismiss it instantly.
I don’t agree with everything he’s said, but does that mean I’m right, and hes wrong?
lol
You people are insane.
I never dismissed it.
I just said it wasn’t fact.
I never said it wasn’t possible.
He on the other hand is saying it is fact. You don’t pass off speculation as fact.
'It’s not true because you can’t prove it for sure.'
Is not the same as saying,
'You might be right, but what if...'.
| | | 13 Jun 2007 07:41 pm |
The one and only OP Rep: 27Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 9,100 OFFLINE | Gunslang wrote:
Online Predator wrote:
Gunslang wrote:
Yet it fits.
Just like some of the others.
Possibly, just like yours.
Who’s to say that they’re not all right, or all wrong?
Sure, Drum is stubborn, but at least hes got enough evidence to come to the conclusion he has made and support it. whilst you stubbornly dismiss it instantly.
I don’t agree with everything he’s said, but does that mean I’m right, and hes wrong?
lol
You people are insane.
I never dismissed it.
I just said it wasn’t fact.
I never said it wasn’t possible.
He on the other hand is saying it is fact. You don’t pass off speculation as fact.
'It’s not true because you can’t prove it for sure.'
Is not the same as saying,
'You might be right, but what if...'.
And did you bother to read everything else. I stated several times it was a possibility.
Club: Ramunematt Is A Fucking Dumbass
| | | 13 Jun 2007 08:42 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 6Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,344 OFFLINE | and several times, you did not. ---
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