popsikel wrote:
in my humble athiest opinion there is no god. give some evidence or proof or something without using the word bible and I will think it over.
Its the lack of evidence that is our evidence.... The universe came from a big bang 14+ billion years ago, with unknown origin, 4.5 billion years ago our planet started comming together, 3 billion years ago for some unknow reason life started as a single cell life (there have been some speculation oh how life could have started but none have been proven) This evolve over many billions of years to what we see today... Hard to see where any of the gods known to humans fit in...
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
n this link will give you all link
At the bottom
It is quite clear from the above discussion that the influence of Christian Jahiliyyah poets as well as the lack of presence of the Bible, either the Old Testament or New Testament in Arabic, suggests that the Qur'ân is not borrowed from the Bible. This point, although not directly, is also mentioned in the Qur'ân. The Qur'ân defends itself from such accusations.
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I read that and I think distortions from Qur’an itself that the line and chapter has been changed by someone...
Qur’an was written down before Prophet Muhammad SAW go to world of the dead... and the caliph after him rewrite it again... you want proof just go to egypt there you will find the true Qur’an which never changed since it written down by first Islam era...
Now the bible has many distortions...
you must know that arabics has poetry but diff from Qur’an... Qur’an is uniqe and no one can create such book but only ONE MAN create such book if you regard that Prophet Muhammad is not Prophet then he must be the genius person on earth...
Al Hadid about Iron
Al Qomar about the moon
Al Buuruj about Galaxies
Now go to Einstein what you find in his books...???
just math, astronomi but will never read from all his books about marriage, how to honour other people, how to divide legacy...
Prophet Muhammad SAW vs Einstein...???
Prophet Muhammad SAW IS THE WINNER...
Right GPlex...???
---
“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster —
Muhammad was a murderer and a pedophile who lived a long time ago that we barely have any verifiable information about and could have easily been a con man who lied about “seeing god” or by today’s standards would be qualified as legally insane and would be put in a psychiatric hospital for mental sickness or in jail for murder.
Einstein is a confirmed genius and used genuine science and math to further our understanding of the universe without having to invoke such a mediocre answer like, “god did it”.
BTW “marriage, how to honour other people, how to divide legacy” has absolutely NOTHING to do with science, Muhammad was a genius on no level. You know why? Because unlike religion, science doesn’t pretend to know all the answers.
Muhammad was a murderer and a pedophile who lived a long time ago that we barely have any verifiable information about and could have easily been a con man who lied about “seeing god” or by today’s standards would be qualified as legally insane and would be put in a psychiatric hospital for mental sickness or in jail for murder.
Einstein is a confirmed genius and used genuine science and math to further our understanding of the universe without having to invoke such a mediocre answer like, “god did it”.
BTW “marriage, how to honour other people, how to divide legacy” has absolutely NOTHING to do with science, Muhammad was a genius on no level. You know why? Because unlike religion, science doesn’t pretend to know all the answers.
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Insane but his book very tremendous right...!!!
Einstein go to school while He never go to school but he can create this...
Materialism can no longer claim to be scientific phylosophy.
“He is the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth..."
(Surat ash-Shura:11)
Allah invites people to consider this truth in the following verse:
Are you stronger in structure or is heaven? He built it. He raised its vault
high and made it level. He darkened its night and brought forth its morning
light. After that He smoothed out the earth… (Surat an Naziat: 27-30)
Elsewhere it is declared in the Qur’an that a person should see and
consider all the systems and balances in the universe that have been created
for him by Allah and derive a lesson from his observations:
He has made night and day subservient to you, and the sun and moon and
stars, all subject to His command. There is certainly Signs in that for people who pay heed. (Surat an-Nahl: 12)
In yet another verse of the Qur’an, it is pointed out:
He makes night merge into day and day merge into night, and He has
made the sun and moon subservient, each one running until a specified
time. That is Allah, your Lord. The Kingdom is His. Those you call on besides Him have no power over even the smallest speck.
(Surah Fatir: 13)
Newsweek made “Science Finds God” the cover story of its July 27th 1998 issue.
To sum up, the philosophy called materialism has been utterly refuted
by modern science. From its position as the dominant scientific view of
the 19th century, materialism collapsed into fiction in the 20th.
How could it have been otherwise? As Allah indicates
“We did notcreate heaven and earth and everything between them to no purpose. That is the opinion of those who are disbelievers."
(Surah Sad: 27)
In its standard form, the big bang theory assumes that all parts of
the universe began expanding simultaneously. But how could all
the different parts of the universe synchronize the beginning of
their expansion? Who gave the command?
Andre Linde, Professor of Cosmology
In 1989, George Smoot and his NASA team sent a satellite into space.
Called the “Cosmic Background Emission Explorer” (COBE), it took only
eight minutes for the sensitive instruments on board the satellite to detect
and confirm the levels of radiation reported by Penzias and Wilson. These
results conclusively demonstrated the existence of the hot, dense form remaining
from the explosion out of which the universe came into being.
Most scientists acknowledged that COBE had successfully captured the
remnants of the Big Bang.
Many scientists who do not force themselves to be atheists accept
and favor the existence of a creator having an infinite power. For instance,the American astrophysicist Hugh Ross proposes a Creator of universe,Who is above all physical dimensions as:
By definition, time is that dimension in which cause-and-effect phenomena take place. No time, no cause and effect. If time’s beginning is concurrent with the beginning of the universe, as the space-time theorem says, then the cause of the universe must be some entity operating in a time dimension completely independent of and pre-existent to the time dimension of the cosmos. …It tells us that the Creator is transcendent, operating beyond the dimensional limits of the universe. It tells us that God is not the universe itself, nor is God contained within the universe.
William Lane Craig, the
author of The Big Bang: Theism and Atheism explains why:
A quantum mechanical vacuum spawning material particles is far from the
ordinary idea of a “vacuum” (meaning nothing). Rather, a quantum vacuum
is a sea of continually forming and dissolving particles, which borrow energy
from the vacuum for their brief existence. This is not “nothing," and
hence, material particles do not come into being out of nothing.
As a concept, “imaginary time”
is tantamount to zero or non-existence–like the imaginary number of
people in a room or the imaginary number of cars on a road. Here
Hawking is just playing with words. He claims that equations are right
when they are related to an imaginary time but in fact this has no meaning. The mathematician Sir Herbert Dingle refers to the possibility of faking imaginary things as real in math as:
In the language of mathematics we can tell lies as well as truths, and within the scope of mathematics itself there is no possible way of telling one from the other. We can distinguish them only by experience or by reasoning outside the mathematics, applied to the possible relation between the mathematical solution and its physical correlate.
To put it briefly, a mathematically imaginary or theoretical solution
need not have a true or a real consequence. Using a property exclusive to mathematics, Hawking produces hypotheses that are unrelated to reality. But what reason could he have for doing this? It’s easy to find the answer to that question in his own words. Hawking admits that he prefers alternative universe models to the Big Bang because the latter “hints at divine creation”, which such models are designed to oppose.
Some materialists do act with more common sense on this subject.
The British Materialist H. P. Lipson accepts the truth of creation, albeit “unpleasantly”, when he says:
If living matter is not, then caused by the interplay of atoms, natural forces, and radiation, how has it come into being?…I think, however, that we must…admit that the only acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it.
In conclusion, the truth disclosed by science is this: Matter and time
have been brought into being by an independent possessor of immense
power, by a Creator. Allah, the Possessor of almighty power, knowledge
and intelligence, has created the universe we live in.
First of all, the creation of this universe from nothingness is revealed in the Qur’an as follows:
He(Allah) is the Originator of the heavens and the earth…
(Surat al-Anam:101)
Do those who are disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not have faith?
(Surat al-Anbiya': 30)
Another truth revealed in the Qur’an is the expansion of the universe
that was discovered in the late 1920s. Hubble’s discovery of the red shift in the spectrum of starlight is revealed in the Qur’an as :
It is We Who have built the universe with (Our creative) power, and, verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it.
(Surat adh-Dhariyat: 47)
Even Stephen Hawking, who tries hard to explain away the creation
of the universe as a series coincidences in A Brief History of Time, acknowledges the extraordinary equilibrium in the rate of expansion:
If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size. 21
He to whom the kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs. He does
not have a son and He has no partner in the Kingdom. He created everything and determined it most exactly. (Surat al-Furqan: 2)
Concerning this mind-boggling number Roger Penrose comments:
This now tells how precise the Creator’s aim must have been, namely to an accuracy of one part in 1010123. This is an extraordinary figure. One could not possibly even write the number down in full in the ordinary denary notation:
it would be 1 followed by 10123 successive 0’s. Even if we were to write a 0 on each separate proton and on each separate neutron in the entire universe- and we could throw in all the other particles for good measure- we should fall far short of writing down the figure needed. 26
Only people who reflect can grasp these signs.
In the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and day, and the ships which sail the seas to people’s benefit, and the water which Allah sends down from the sky- by which He brings the earth to life when it was dead and scatters about in it creatures of every kind - and the varying direction of the winds, and the clouds subservient between heaven and earth, there are Signs for people who use their intellect. (Surat al-Baqara:164)
Your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then settled Himself firmly on the Throne. He covers the day with the night and, each pursuing the other urgently; and the sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of all worlds.
(Surat al-Araf: 54)
Can Einstein doing such things without going to school...
Prophet Muhammad SAW can... Can you do that Ramunematt...
Where is your saying that Qur''an has distortions then I’ll show you that Qur’an NEVER CHANGED since it was written down from the age of Prophet Muhammad SAW...
---
“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster —
Mohhamed (pbuh) was NOT a paedophile. He did marry a child, true, but back then the age expectancy of arabs was about 30 or so years and people had to marry younger people. Also, people died a lot easier so they had to breed with a lot more people. He did NOT rape children, he simply married one, as was the norm in those days.
He did not have sex with her till she was at least in her late teens. And teenagers are NOT children, if you can have a child, you are surely not a child. Teenagers can have children, therefore they are mature.
The reasons muslim males can marry multiple women is because the women’s husbands may have died in war and they might need help and support, that is what the Quran teaches, women are not inferior, they are just not as strong as males and should have a loving husband to look over them and protect them.
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Last edited 02 Jan 2008 12:04 am by Sean of the Living
popsikel wrote:
in my humble athiest opinion there is no god. give some evidence or proof or something without using the word bible and I will think it over.
popsikel wrote:
in my humble athiest opinion there is no god. give some evidence or proof or something without using the word bible and I will think it over.
Look around. Nature has a perfect balance of herbivores and carnivores, each animal is adapted to it’s own unique way of life on this Earth, and the Earth is in a perfect orbit, guarded from meteors by Jupiter, not too hot, not too cold and covered with water, the giver of all life.
Also, if one of scientific laws, like gravity, or the nuclear forces, were to be made slightly stronger or weaker, the universe would not be able to support life.
popsikel wrote:
in my humble athiest opinion there is no god. give some evidence or proof or something without using the word bible and I will think it over.
Look around. Nature has a perfect balance of herbivores and carnivores, each animal is adapted to it’s own unique way of life on this Earth, and the Earth is in a perfect orbit, guarded from meteors by Jupiter, not too hot, not too cold and covered with water, the giver of all life.
Also, if one of scientific laws, like gravity, or the nuclear forces, were to be made slightly stronger or weaker, the universe would not be able to support life.
It must be meant to be.
They say if the Earth were any closer to the sun, it wouldn’t be able to support life.
Coincidence, or intention?
popsikel wrote:
in my humble athiest opinion there is no god. give some evidence or proof or something without using the word bible and I will think it over.
Look around. Nature has a perfect balance of herbivores and carnivores, each animal is adapted to it’s own unique way of life on this Earth, and the Earth is in a perfect orbit, guarded from meteors by Jupiter, not too hot, not too cold and covered with water, the giver of all life.
Also, if one of scientific laws, like gravity, or the nuclear forces, were to be made slightly stronger or weaker, the universe would not be able to support life.
It must be meant to be.
They say if the Earth were any closer to the sun, it wouldn’t be able to support life.
Coincidence, or intention?
The fact that it is at that perfect ratio means it was able to support life.
The universe doesn’t support the idea of God, it supports any idea you throw at it, since most of the universes secrets are unknown.
I.E. The universe supports evolution, because there are other planets with organisms such as the ones we evolved from.
popsikel wrote:
in my humble athiest opinion there is no god. give some evidence or proof or something without using the word bible and I will think it over.
Look around. Nature has a perfect balance of herbivores and carnivores, each animal is adapted to it’s own unique way of life on this Earth, and the Earth is in a perfect orbit, guarded from meteors by Jupiter, not too hot, not too cold and covered with water, the giver of all life.
Also, if one of scientific laws, like gravity, or the nuclear forces, were to be made slightly stronger or weaker, the universe would not be able to support life.
It must be meant to be.
They say if the Earth were any closer to the sun, it wouldn’t be able to support life.
Coincidence, or intention?
The fact that it is at that perfect ratio means it was able to support life.
The universe doesn’t support the idea of God, it supports any idea you throw at it, since most of the universes secrets are unknown.
I.E. The universe supports evolution, because there are other planets with organisms such as the ones we evolved from.
I’m going to say yes just because life has been around longer then this planet and by now there must be a dozen or so ascended races.
--- Dogbert said the deepest thing ever.
“It is all a part of the big illusion we perpetuate upon ourselves and which is in turn perpetuated upon us. When we believe we engage the illusion, when we stop believing we shatter the illusion and ourselves in the process because we are part of it."
Theoretically if another planet formed faster than ours after the big bang and has the proper conditions to support life, then it is very possible that life existed before our planet was formed.
popsikel wrote:
in my humble athiest opinion there is no god. give some evidence or proof or something without using the word bible and I will think it over.
Look around. Nature has a perfect balance of herbivores and carnivores, each animal is adapted to it’s own unique way of life on this Earth, and the Earth is in a perfect orbit, guarded from meteors by Jupiter, not too hot, not too cold and covered with water, the giver of all life.
Also, if one of scientific laws, like gravity, or the nuclear forces, were to be made slightly stronger or weaker, the universe would not be able to support life.
It must be meant to be.
They say if the Earth were any closer to the sun, it wouldn’t be able to support life.
Coincidence, or intention?
The fact that it is at that perfect ratio means it was able to support life.
The universe doesn’t support the idea of God, it supports any idea you throw at it, since most of the universes secrets are unknown.
I.E. The universe supports evolution, because there are other planets with organisms such as the ones we evolved from.
Dude, it’s not JUST the Earth I’m talking about.
It’s the entire universes physical laws.
For example, if beryllium nuclei, made in the cores of stars, were a different size, they would not go on to for carbon and oxygen, elements which are essential for life.
If the weak nuclear force were slightly different, stars would not explode and make new stars and planets, or if it were to strong, nothing would be able to join toghether and it would all be a bunch of atoms flying around, unable to attach and thus unable to form life.
If the force between protons and neutrons was slightly stronger, there would be no hydrogen. Hydrogen is the basis of all other atoms in the whole universe. The stars would not exist, not water, nor anything for that matter.
Or if gravity was slightly stronger, all stars would collapse into black holes and wreak havoc.
Besides, if there was no creator and the universe just randomly happened to have the perfect set of physical laws, the right chemicals would have to come together in the right quantities under the right temperature and pressure and radiation levels and it would have to last long enough to create life. Not only that, but most of the time after developing it would probably be wiped out soon after and the extremely rare happening of life being formed under the right circumstances would have to be repeated billions of times. If you added all these factors up, the chances of this actually happening and the time it would take before it had a proper chance of happening would easily be greater than the age of the universe itself.
Even evolutionists admit that the chances of the right atoms and molecules falling into place to form just one simple protien molecule would be extremely high. I will not write it down (we cannot use mathermatical shorthand with this forum, sadly) but the number would be a 1, followed by about 113 zeros. That’s a lot bigger than the estimated amount of atoms in the universe.
And that’s only to form ONE protien molecule. A living cell will need about 2000 different protiens to maintain it’s activity! So multiply a 1, followed by 113 zeros 2000 times.
113 x 2000 = 2,226,000
That’s a one followed by about two and a quater million zeros.
No way can that all happen by chance.
So even if the Bible and the Torah and the Quran are all wrong, even if we don’t know God, there certainly must be one in one form or another, knowable or unknowable, there’s something.
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Last edited 02 Jan 2008 07:45 pm by Sean of the Living
I’m just curious about something; why do you feel there has to be some kind of deity? Life in the universe isn’t as improbable as your making it sound. But the thing I just don’t get, is when we admit we can’t provide all the answers right now so people automatically put god in all the gaps. What if you asked someone a question about how something happened and they reply, “oh, I can’t explain this therefore god must have done it”?. I man how pathetic is that?
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