Is god real

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Last time I checked, L Ron Hubbard was educated and literate, and therfore could make up a religion. Muhhamed was illiterate and never moved out of the Middle East, ever, and was never educated in a school, so howcome when he claimed to be visited by an Angel, his religion was actually supported by scientific fact which he obviously hasn’t stolen from the Greeks? Because it’s true. Even with all L. Ron Hubbards education, he couldn’t make a scientifically accurate religion, but Muhhamed, with his lack of education, COULD make a scientifically accurate religion, so he must have been telling the truth.

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By the way, Muhhamed knew this stuff 1400 years ago. Last time I checked., you couldn’t get a wealth of information back in 600 C.E by just getting an uneducated guy in the Middle East to write something down you just thought off the top of your head.

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Oh sure, let’s rule out the possibility that someone told Muhammad about all that stuff, or that he was literate but pretended not to be in order to make his “prophecy” seem more legit, or that he was a conman like L. Ron Hubbard, or that maybe that vision of an angel was a simple hallucination.

People back then were very gullible, they didn’t care if there wasn’t any verifiable evidence to support their claims, especially when god was involved.

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This whole argumet is dumb.

News flash people. You’re not going to change someone’s fundemental beliefs with two paragraphs on an internet forum. I’ve explained all my scientific shit over and over, but Gplex still says I don’t know anything.

He doesn’t have to believe me, but after my biggest post, I can’t believe he has the nerve to say I don’t know anything about science. His arguments are just so illogical and unscientific and he still think’s he’s smarter than me, it just pisses me off.

So the moral of the story is all humans are too dumb to understand anything about how the universe began or even have an intelligent conversation over an internet forum.

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The ilogical is the atheist people...

Ramunematt... may I ask you something...??? The chair that you used to sit on it... is it created or it was there even you were not born yet...???

This is the prove for you...
Said who when the big bang revealed then the religion collapses...
For other religion maybe but for Islam and Qur’an...???

The Big Bang in Qur’an

Do those who are disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then
We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not have faith?
(Surat al-Anbiya': 30)

It is We Who have built the universe with (Our creative) power, and, verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it.
(Surat adh-Dhariyat: 47)

He to whom the kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs. He does
not have a son and He has no partner in the Kingdom. He created everything and determined it most
exactly. (Surat al-Furqan: 2)

Even Allah SWT made calculations in universe and that sciences is given
to you by your minds... For us to know the universe is not accidently happen
it wase created by the most Intelegence... Allah SWT...

Math accepted in Islam... For other religion just look what happen to
Galileo and Copernicus... In Islam...??? Al Khuwarizmi...??? The Father
of Math...

“Blessed be He who has the Kingdom in His Hand! He has power over all
things. He who created the seven heavens in layers. You will not find any
flaw in the creation of the All-Merciful. Look again-do you see any gaps?
Then look again and again. Your sight will return to you dazzled and exhausted."
(Surat al-Mulk: 1-4)

“Your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and
then settled Himself firmly on the Throne. He covers the day with the
night, each pursuing the other urgently; and the sun and moon and stars
are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to
Him. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of all worlds."
(Surat al-A’raf: 54)

Orbit in Qur’an something that you cant find anything about it in other religions...

Your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then settled Himself
firmly on the Throne. He covers the day with the night and, each pursuing the other urgently; and
the sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to
Him. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of all worlds.
(Surat al-Araf: 54)

What Qur’an said about the creation of our solar system... the base
is the same for all the solar system...

Then He willed to the heaven when it was smoke... (Surat Fussilat:11)

The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed.
(Surat ar-Rahman: 5)

“He built the heaven, He raised its vault high and made it level."
(Surat an-Nazi’at:27-28)

“We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars."
(Surat as-Saffat: 6)

*** Heliocentris in Qur’an ***

It is not for the sun to catch up the moon nor for the night to outstrip the day. Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit.
(Surah Ya Sin: 40)

“By the Sky with its oscillating orbits. Most surely, you are at variance with each other in what you say. Averted from it is he who is averted. Cursed
be the conjecturers; those who flounder in a glut of ignorance."
(Surat adh-Dhariyat: 7-11)

“The sun and moon both run with precision."
(Surat ar-Rahman: 5)

“Allah is He who created the heavens and the earth and sends down water
from the sky and by it brings forth fruits as provision for you. ...He has
made the sun and moon subservient to you holding steady to their courses,
and He has made the night and day subservient to you. He has given
you everything you have asked Him for. If you tried to number Allah’s
blessings, you could never count them. Man is indeed wrongdoing, ungrateful."
(Surah Ibrahim: 32-34)

Qur’an revealed everything that you disbelievers claim about the big
bang and everything you claim to be your scientific proves that there is no god...

but science finds the opposite way... other religion maybe but for Qur’an...???

Not that way... Islam is the right way...

Still want proves...?

The Nobel prize winner German
physicist Max Planck explains the order in the universe:
At all events, we should say, in summing up, that, according to everything
taught by the exact sciences about the immense realm of nature in which our
tiny planet plays an insignificant role, a certain order prevails - one independent
of the human mind. Yet, in so far as we are able to ascertain through
our senses, this order can be formulated in terms of purposeful activity.
There is evidence of an intelligent order of the universe.

Einstein refers to this order as an unexpected event, and also says
that it should be regarded as a miracle:
Well, a priori [reasoning from cause to effect] one should expect that the
world would be rendered lawful [obedient to law and order] only to the extent
that we [human beings] intervene with our ordering intelligence... [But
instead we find] in the objective world a high degree of order that we were
a priori in no way authorized to expect. This is the 'miracle' that is strengthened
more and more with the development of our knowledge.

Allah reveals how the heavens and earth are preserved by His supreme power in the Qur’an:

“Allah keeps a firm hold on the heavens and earth, preventing them from
vanishing away. And if they vanished no one could then keep hold of
them. Certainly He is Most Forbearing, Ever -Forgiving."
(Surah Fatır: 41)

The divine order in this universe reveals the weakness of the materialistic
belief of a universe that is a mass of ungoverned matter. This is revealed
in another verse:
“If the truth were to follow their whims and desires, the heavens and the
earth and everyone in them would have been brought to ruin…"
(Surat al-Muminun: 71)

Isaac Newton, recognized
as one of the greatest scientific minds of all times, once wrote:
This most elegant system of suns, planets, and comets could arise from the
purpose and sovereignty of an intelligent and mighty being…He rules them
all, not as a soul but as a sovereign lord of all things, and because of His sovereignty
He is commonly called “Lord God Almighty."

*** Atmosphere in Qur’an which protect us from meteorit that want to crash on earth ***
As revelead in Qur’an... We all know that our atmosphere and ozon protect us from outer
radiations from the sun and even from meteor and meteorit.

We made the sky a persevered and protected roof yet still they turn away
from Our Signs. (Surat al-Anbiya: 32)

“It is Allah who made the earth a stable home for you and the sky a dome,
and formed you, giving you the best of forms, and provided you with
good and wholesome things. That is Allah, your Lord. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds."
(Surah Ghafir: 64)

“It is He Who made the earth submissive to you, so walk its broad trails
and eat what it provides. The Resurrection is to Him."
(Surat al-Mulk: 15)

This perfect creation of Allah is described in the Qur’an thus:
“Are you stronger in structure or is heaven? He built it. He raised its vault
high and made it level. He darkened its night and brought forth its morning
light. After that He smoothed out the earth and brought forth from it
its water and its pastureland and made the mountains firm for you and for
your livestock to enjoy."
(Surat an-Nazi’at: 27-33)

“It is He Who splits the sky at dawn, and appoints the night as a time of
stillness and the sun and moon as a means of reckoning. That is what the
Almighty, the All-Knowing has ordained."
(Surat al-Anam: 96)

Still want more about creations...???

I have plenty of 'em for you...

Now give me distortions that you promised me before...

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Just watch some of this guys videos.. it would take me many pages for me to explain this too you.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=CapnOrdinary

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The bible mentions nothing about extra-terrestrial beings, unless you count the number of angels that visited the earth and if there was proof that wouldn’t disprove the existence of a God, but it would discredit and causing questioning in the validity of the Bible. Dig it! A God/ Divine Creator must exist, but what the hell created her/him/it? Could the spirit or entity have been that endowed that it created itself? Possibly. If God knows everything and is everywhere and whatnot, there is no way she/he/it would speak to just men, regardless of the time period, because if the people who wrote the bible were that divine, if one of them was a woman, what she had to say would be of equal importance as the other men who contributed to the creation of this great book called the bible. Not to mention the editing of the bible in which some books were removed, which is strictly forbidden in revelations, and not only that but you mean to tell me that in the beginning God created men by himself, and then decided to create women as second class citizens? Clearly a reflection of male shovenist in acion. In addition, if animals existed before Eve, there would have had to been a second creation of animals,female animals, as the second creation of a humans because if the animals were paired up by sexes then so would man and woman, not man then women. Would it not? The Bible is a croc of bull blended with great teachings and moral mythological stories as a means of keeping order and control for the elites.

Philosophical Mind

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All these religious books were written by some great philosophers with great theories, but I refuse to follow them to the death. It’s illogical to be a die hard fan of any of man’s creation (religion) because men are prone to error, these books and religions were establish by men; therefore they are prone to error, especially with the more men that write/ create it. AVAR K' DAVAR!

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The fact that it is at that perfect ratio means it was able to support life.

The universe doesn’t support the idea of God, it supports any idea you throw at it, since most of the universes secrets are unknown.

I.E. The universe supports evolution, because there are other planets with organisms such as the ones we evolved from.
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
There are more than 30 millions insects that known today...

first is one insect right... takes million of years...

take a look at flies eyes... i dont know how to spell it in english but flies, dragon fly and other they have many eyes right... first is one eyes... they evolve million years and two eyes evolve again... and again and again...

30 million insects x 1 million years...???

one insect to have a perfect form and making sub species need more time and the earth time is not enough for that...

need more...???

evolution said that the species is comes from the past creature and inherit their DNA right...???

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Insects have perfect forms? are you kidding me? First off a insect from one part of the planet most likly wont be suitable for another part of the planet, why because the evolve to suit their enviroment. Nothing more. I could take a billion clones of insects and put them all in diffrent enviroments, I could come back a million years later to find that each insect has completly changed. thus having a billion diffrence species from 1 species.
Yes we get our dna from our parent, but you are not a copy you are a mix of their genes + random mutation, this combind will select out who is best to survive and muiltiply in that enviorment. Thus evolution moves on.

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Insects have perfect forms? are you kidding me? First off a insect from one part of the planet most likly wont be suitable for another part of the planet, why because the evolve to suit their enviroment. Nothing more. I could take a billion clones of insects and put them all in diffrent enviroments, I could come back a million years later to find that each insect has completly changed. thus having a billion diffrence species from 1 species.
Yes we get our dna from our parent, but you are not a copy you are a mix of their genes + random mutation, this combind will select out who is best to survive and muiltiply in that enviorment. Thus evolution moves on.
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
first of all you need one insect... right...???

so how come something like ant can do such things...???

instinct...???

so how come the cell united and mix their body and make form first with failure and then perfect form... why dont we see the failure form...??? all we see is the perfect form...???

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failure? you mean like the ones that are deformed and die or eggs that dont hatch, we have had 3 billion years to evolve those who created off spring who failed alot did not survive all that long (the offspring) to bread more.

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It says Allah made life with water, and sometimes earth.

Which is really what man is, water (dihydrogenmonoxide) and earth (carbon).

Besides, even if Muhhamed stole things from the Greeks, I don’t think the Greeks knew that THE UNIVERSE IS EXPANDING!

“And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it." (Qur’an, 51:47)

Last edited 07 Jan 2008 10:45 pm by Sean of the Living

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Anyone who says the universe is not finely tuned to life is a fool.

Gravity:

- If gravity were stronger, excessive ammonia and methane would collect in the Earth’s atmosphere, which would have a most damaging effect on life.

- If it were weaker, the Earth’s atmosphere would lose excessive quantities of water, making life impossible.

The Earth’s Distance from the Sun:

- If this were any greater, the planet would grow very cold, the water cycle in the atmosphere would be affected, and the planet would enter an ice-age.

- If the Earth were any closer to the Sun, plants would burn up, the water cycle in the Earth’s atmosphere would be irreparably damaged, and life would become impossible.-

The Thickness of the Earth’s Crust:

- If the crust were any thicker, then an excessive amount of oxygen would be transferred to it from the atmosphere.
- If it were any thinner, the resulting amount of volcanic activity would make life impossible.

The Speed at which the Earth Revolves:

If this were any slower, the temperature difference between day and night would grow enormously.

-If it were any faster, then atmospheric winds would reach enormous speeds, and cyclones and storms would make life impossible.

The Earth’s Magnetic Field:

- If this were any more powerful, very strong electromagnetic storms would arise.

- If it were any weaker, then the Earth would lose its protection against the harmful particles given off by the Sun and known as solar winds. Both situations would make life impossible.-

The Albedo Effect (Ratio between the amount of light the Earth reflects and the amount of light that is absorbed):

- If this were any greater, an ice-age would rapidly result.

- If it were any less, the greenhouse effect would lead to excessive warming. The Earth would first be flooded with the melting of the glaciers, and would then burn up.-

The Proportion of Oxygen and Nitrogen in the Atmosphere:

- If this were any greater, vital functions would be adversely accelerated.

- If it were any less, vital functions would adversely slow down.
The Proportion of Carbon Dioxide and Water in the Atmosphere:

- If this were any greater, the atmosphere would overheat.

- If it were any less, the temperature of the atmosphere would fall.

The Thickness of the Ozone Layer:

- If this were any greater, the Earth’s temperature would fall enormously.

- If it were any less, the Earth would overheat and be defenceless against the harmful ultraviolet rays emitted by the Sun.

Seismic Activity (Earthquakes):

- If this were any greater, there would be constant upheaval for living things.

- If it were any less, the nutrients at the sea bottom would fail to spread into the water. This would have a damaging effect on life in the seas and oceans and all living things on Earth.-

The Earth’s Angle of Tilt:

The Earth has a 23 degree angle of inclination to its orbit. It is this inclination that gives rise to the seasons. If this angle were any greater or any less than it is now, the temperature difference between the seasons would reach extreme dimensions, with unbearably hot summers and bitterly cold winters.

The Size of the Sun:

A smaller star than the Sun would mean the Earth would freeze and a larger star would lead to its burning up.

The Attraction between the Earth and the Moon:

- If this were any greater, the powerful attraction of the Moon would have extremely serious effects on atmospheric conditions, the speed at which the Earth revolves around its own axis and on the ocean tides.

- If it were any less, this would lead to extreme climate changes.-

Last edited 07 Jan 2008 06:55 pm by Sean of the Living

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Really so the fact that we live in a universe that is more then 15 billion light years accross and we can only live in this little planet which we still can’t live on every peace of it. If you where in space you would last all of 7 seconds..
Really if you are going to preach something preach stupid design.



On your current life.. We have evolve to suit the universe not the other way around!!!!

This is absoulty stupid.. Helium doesnt even leave the earths atmosphere and it is far lighter then water!!! yet somehow it stays up in the upper atmostphere, yet you think that water will just fly into space.. what a load of unsupported bs.


No we have a 1 million mile area where the earth can go to have liquid water. ! MILLION.

1 000 000 miles!



Beside giving the ablity to grow larger to insects, how will that kill off life?

I dont get it.. the earth crust thickness all depends on how much the earths core has cool down... yes the earth once had a liquid rock surface. It has been cooling down over the last 4 billion years.


No it would grow all that much because the earth has a thing call wind.

Actually no it would not.. winds and storms have never killed of bacteria, so life would still be here.


No we would be more protected from the solor winds.

Do you have any Idea what kind of stupidity you are spewing?


Ice age has happen before and life is still here. Keep on trying...


I dont even know how to respond to such stupidity.


This will kill off life how?


You make it sound like its a perfect balance.. how many trillions of tons of carbon dioxide have humans release into the air and the planet has only gone up 1 degree... how is this 1 degree going to kill off life?


Yea yea ice age we know. You do know we are currently in a ice age at the moment right? the averagetemperature for the dinosaures was 50 degree celsius


Wow.. so If I added just on o3 we would go into a ice ages

news flash.. everytime we release CO it takes one of the O from the O3 and make CO2 and O2.. and that destroys the ozone.. been doing it for years!!! and nope.. we havent over headed...


Or living things could evolve to live in a constant earthquake envoroment.


Umm its other living things that produce the nutrients.


It would be better if we didnt have seasons dont you thing?


if we change the distance we are from the sun if it went smaller/larger we will not..


Sigh... Thats just stupid.. we could have no moon and life could still surive.


Again no.. it could lead to extreme seasonal changes. winter summer 10x over thorugh the year..

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Said who the Qur’an not support math...???

Later I’ll post this but I must translate it first so just wait and see Gplex...

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Advance maths please.

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— — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Even evolutionists admit that the chances of the right atoms and molecules falling into place, assuming the universe had existed for a time of 15 billion years, to form just one simple protien molecule would be extremely low. I will not write it down (we cannot use mathermatical shorthand with this forum, sadly) but the number would be a 1, followed by about 113 zeros. That’s a lot bigger than the estimated amount of atoms in the universe.

And that’s only to form ONE protien molecule. A living cell will need about 2000 different protiens to maintain it’s activity! So multiply a 1, followed by 113 zeros 2000 times.

113 x 2000 = 2,226,000

That’s a one followed by about two and a quater million zeros.
— — — — — — — — — — — —


Therefore the chances of life happening to have appeared once in the universe by chance over a span of 15 billion years is a 1 against a number 1 followed by two and a quater million zeros.

And that’s only once. Think about all the times life would have perished along the way and had to start again millions of times over.

That advanced enough for you?

Besides, if life is so widespread in the universe, howcome we haven’t found any aliens yet?

Last edited 08 Jan 2008 08:34 pm by Sean of the Living

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According to evolutionists, evolution takes time. If this is true, then howcome you are saying life forms could rapidly adapt to things like unpredictable weather patterns that are completely random? It couldn’t, because if the patterns are changing faster than the animals are evolving (and if we got rid of the moon, the ozone layer, changed our orbit or our Earth’s crust they certainly would be) all life wouldn’t adapt quick enough and it would die.

Last edited 08 Jan 2008 08:47 pm by Sean of the Living

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Ah probabilities... These are all bullshit.... any type of maths such as these can be manipulated to what every you want.
Aliens... wtf how far outside our solor system have we got? Again This is a strawman because I didnt even say life is widespread.