derdev789 wrote:
I warned you that I was being an argumentative son of a bitch.
I see you guys talking about Evolution and the Big Bang in the context most ignorant fools use. You realize that Evolution is simply the most popularized version of how we came around? There are hundreds if not thousands of theories as to the origin of our species, all with facts and evidence close to if not surpassing that of Evolution. But Evolution has “media attention” which lead to a fanboyish cult.
The Big Bang? Funny I have debated this one with people. First I have to ask the question “Where did the matter in the universe come from?" to which the answer is almost always “The Big Bang changed energy into matter." Which leads to the question. “Where did the energy in the universe come from?" to which I have left many college level professors searching for an answer. If you keep asking the question “Where did it come from?" eventually you realize that there must have been a starting point at some place in time, but how is that possible without something being there to create it in the first place? Matter and energy don’t just spontaneously create themselves. Am I to assume that the universe has been around since the infinity of the begining of time? When did time start? There has to be a begining at some point.
Yes there was a beginning, and yes it was finite. It’s called the big bang. The big bang started with a singularity. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of black holes. Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something; a singularity. Where did it come from? We don’t know. Why did it appear? We don’t know. But we theorized that it could have spontaneously came into existence.
Just bear with me for a second. Let’s say that we know for sure that sometihng had to spontaneously come into existence in order for the universe to begin. Now, what do you think has a better probability of that happening: Matter, or intelligent complex matter?
derdev789 wrote:
I warned you that I was being an argumentative son of a bitch.
I see you guys talking about Evolution and the Big Bang in the context most ignorant fools use. You realize that Evolution is simply the most popularized version of how we came around? There are hundreds if not thousands of theories as to the origin of our species, all with facts and evidence close to if not surpassing that of Evolution. But Evolution has “media attention” which lead to a fanboyish cult.
The Big Bang? Funny I have debated this one with people. First I have to ask the question “Where did the matter in the universe come from?" to which the answer is almost always “The Big Bang changed energy into matter." Which leads to the question. “Where did the energy in the universe come from?" to which I have left many college level professors searching for an answer. If you keep asking the question “Where did it come from?" eventually you realize that there must have been a starting point at some place in time, but how is that possible without something being there to create it in the first place? Matter and energy don’t just spontaneously create themselves. Am I to assume that the universe has been around since the infinity of the begining of time? When did time start? There has to be a begining at some point.
No Evolution has science behind it. Giving it more credibility in the general public than things magically appearing by a flick of the rist. *oh my god stop it David Blaine*
And of course the Big Bang can’t explain everything. Cause you can keep questioning where did this come from and where did that come from. No one knows where anything came from. Cause it’s a physical impossibility for something to arise from nothingness. But the Big Bang Theory explains how having a very little unexplained something and have this entirity we do have. Religion does the exact same. Cause God can’t create himself. Not could he have had a medium to create the world without something already being there. So questions like this always arise and they are unexplainable. Nothing can explain a medium arising from nothingness. We need to deal with that alright.
--- It’s not about money. It’s about sending a message. Everything burns.
But it also makes you wonder if people should be allowed to pick and choose from the bible what is real and what isn’t real. Why should people think the overexaggerations in Noahs Ark and what not are simply for literary purposes but things in Genesis such as creation aren’t. Especially by simply outlook that seems a little more outlandish than a huge ark. That’s what always is a main point of scrutinization in the bible is that if you look at the entire thing as whole as telling the exact truth but science is able to prove some of the things in the Bible impossible. So people go to a pick and choose policy which simply jsut infers more and more at discrepancies.
Hey, I know this is from a little ways back, but I meant to comment on it and forgot.
I wanted to address the idea of “picking and choosing” things from the bible.
I think we can agree(but maybe not) that just as people pick and choose from religious doctrine what to believe, people also do the same thing with aspects of scientific thought, particularity with regards to theory.
It seems that your issue is when people choose to believe what in your terms is an impossibility while discrediting other impossibilities.
So my opinion on the matter is that yes, I think it’s alright for people to do this.
My reasoning for this is simply that if their decision on what to believe and what not to believe fits within their frame of reasoning...you can’t expect them to change that view based on your reasoning. In other words...just because you use certain logical analysis to determine what is impossible in your mind does not necessarily mean that they came to their conclusion using the same type of analysis.
To rephrase differently once more: you see them as being hypocrites but they don’t see themselfs as being hypocrites.
This is an important distinction because it works both ways.
example: (you=hypothetical) Someone may see you as being a hypocrite because you base your assumptions about the world on “evidence” or “proof” but will choose to believe some theories without substantial amount of either of those.
You can argue this of course because you understand your own logic for making those decisions. But another point of view says your being a hypocrite and simply “picking” and “choosing” what to believe.
That’s not going to stop you from being very frustrated with other peoples reasoning, nor will it change the reverse, but it is at least another way to look at how you can go round and round and round in certain arguments with both sides thinking the other is out to lunch.
So there’s nothing wrong with advocating your point of view, the fact that we have so many makes the world an interesting place. But sometimes remember that some of your most basic assumptions about how the world works, or how to think about the world are not shared by others. So your seemingly logical view of “it’s not logical to use scientific views/knowledge to discredit certain parts of the bible and not others” may simple not be interpreted the same way by others.
Phew! Sorry it was so long, but looking at epistemoligies and ontologies needs more detailed explanations.
Oh, and most of all that was very theoretical. Those types of thought processes are happening all the time. we simply don’t think about them.
And it would be rather tedious and difficult to have discussions and debates while trying to somehow take into account everyones basic assumptions of how to view the world.
Just thought I’d take it to a slightly different level there.
"....The creation of Adam was the beginning..." - Jesus.
Alright big bang is completley false. Come on people whats more believable: The earth came 4 1/2 billion years ago from rocks? or 6000 years ago God made the earth and all thats in it?
If the big bang theory was true, then why isnt our body made of rock? Hmm? Why do women have intense labor pains when giving birth? because God cursed them from eating from the tree in the middle of the garden of Eve.
Why is there death? "....by sin came death..." - Jesus. Man didnt die until Adam sinned. Because there is sin in the world there is death.
Seriously, me believing we came from a rock is complete silly and obviously wrong. Do you see rocks today making dogs? Do you see a rock produce a human? Of course not.
Does anyone know where Man came from? It started with God, He made Adam in the garden of Eden, then made him fall into a deep sleep and took a rib out and made a partner, Adam called it “woman” for she was made from a man.
Big bang IMO = false.
--- alright the clans are back!!!! Lets revive the game section!
ramunematt wrote:
What’s more believable, matter spontaneously coming into existence or intelligent complex matter spontaneously coming into existence?
That’s all you need to ask to refute everything you just said.
i believe what i believe, same with you.
--- alright the clans are back!!!! Lets revive the game section!
bugsbunny wrote:
”....The creation of Adam was the beginning..." - Jesus.
Alright big bang is completley false. Come on people whats more believable: The earth came 4 1/2 billion years ago from rocks? or 6000 years ago God made the earth and all thats in it?
If the big bang theory was true, then why isnt our body made of rock? Hmm? Why do women have intense labor pains when giving birth? because God cursed them from eating from the tree in the middle of the garden of Eve.
Why is there death? "....by sin came death..." - Jesus. Man didnt die until Adam sinned. Because there is sin in the world there is death.
Seriously, me believing we came from a rock is complete silly and obviously wrong. Do you see rocks today making dogs? Do you see a rock produce a human? Of course not.
Does anyone know where Man came from? It started with God, He made Adam in the garden of Eden, then made him fall into a deep sleep and took a rib out and made a partner, Adam called it “woman” for she was made from a man.
Big bang IMO = false.
It’s entirely impossible for the earth to be 6000 years ago. We have fossils that can be carbon dated and all that to way before then. I mean seriously it’s a physical impossibility for the earth to only be 6000 years old.
The only thing you do have going for you though is that their is really no scientific explanation as to why humans die. Do to their anaotmy and what not humans should be able to liver forever, or at least a much longer time than we are now.
--- It’s not about money. It’s about sending a message. Everything burns.
Actually Discover did an article on that very subject! They did a mockup of what they thought a human designed too live for 200 years would look like.
Really the human body is not a perfect vassal, your cardiovascular system needs work, your bone structure is not very well suited for continues upright travel, your eyes fail too easily, male prostate is highly susceptible to cancer, the brain is poorly organized, the (yes) vagina needs to be wider, since of smell is inadequate, ect.
--- Dogbert said the deepest thing ever.
“It is all a part of the big illusion we perpetuate upon ourselves and which is in turn perpetuated upon us. When we believe we engage the illusion, when we stop believing we shatter the illusion and ourselves in the process because we are part of it."
Congratulations, you’ve just shot yourself in the conceptual foot by saying something complex was there from the beginning. In reality complex things come late in the universe as a consequence of slow, gradual, incremental steps.
His arguments are laughable at best. I saw a video a few months ago that refuted that entire video, but I can’t post it thanks to Kent Hovind’s fundamental goons making illegitimate copyright claims to censor all criticism of him.
Religion is what causes most of the problems in this fucked up crazy world! THERE IS NO GOD, NO DEVIL, NO AFTER LIFE, NO HEAVEN OR HELL! But that is MY belief, MY OPINION ON SO CALLED RELIGION! and for thoes that dont like my OPINION! well...
ramunematt, how can they say anything if its on a public fourm and you make no money off it?
--- Dogbert said the deepest thing ever.
“It is all a part of the big illusion we perpetuate upon ourselves and which is in turn perpetuated upon us. When we believe we engage the illusion, when we stop believing we shatter the illusion and ourselves in the process because we are part of it."
bugsbunny wrote:
”....The creation of Adam was the beginning..." - Jesus.
Alright big bang is completley false. Come on people whats more believable: The earth came 4 1/2 billion years ago from rocks? or 6000 years ago God made the earth and all thats in it?
If the big bang theory was true, then why isnt our body made of rock? Hmm? Why do women have intense labor pains when giving birth? because God cursed them from eating from the tree in the middle of the garden of Eve.
Why is there death? "....by sin came death..." - Jesus. Man didnt die until Adam sinned. Because there is sin in the world there is death.
Seriously, me believing we came from a rock is complete silly and obviously wrong. Do you see rocks today making dogs? Do you see a rock produce a human? Of course not.
Does anyone know where Man came from? It started with God, He made Adam in the garden of Eden, then made him fall into a deep sleep and took a rib out and made a partner, Adam called it “woman” for she was made from a man.
Big bang IMO = false.
It’s entirely impossible for the earth to be 6000 years ago. We have fossils that can be carbon dated and all that to way before then. I mean seriously it’s a physical impossibility for the earth to only be 6000 years old.
The only thing you do have going for you though is that their is really no scientific explanation as to why humans die. Do to their anaotmy and what not humans should be able to liver forever, or at least a much longer time than we are now.
exactly there is no scientific explanation. But there is a biblical reason.
Proof that scince and religion dont co-exist.
--- alright the clans are back!!!! Lets revive the game section!
bugsbunny wrote:
”....The creation of Adam was the beginning..." - Jesus.
Alright big bang is completley false. Come on people whats more believable: The earth came 4 1/2 billion years ago from rocks? or 6000 years ago God made the earth and all thats in it?
If the big bang theory was true, then why isnt our body made of rock? Hmm? Why do women have intense labor pains when giving birth? because God cursed them from eating from the tree in the middle of the garden of Eve.
Why is there death? "....by sin came death..." - Jesus. Man didnt die until Adam sinned. Because there is sin in the world there is death.
Seriously, me believing we came from a rock is complete silly and obviously wrong. Do you see rocks today making dogs? Do you see a rock produce a human? Of course not.
Does anyone know where Man came from? It started with God, He made Adam in the garden of Eden, then made him fall into a deep sleep and took a rib out and made a partner, Adam called it “woman” for she was made from a man.
Big bang IMO = false.
It’s entirely impossible for the earth to be 6000 years ago. We have fossils that can be carbon dated and all that to way before then. I mean seriously it’s a physical impossibility for the earth to only be 6000 years old.
The only thing you do have going for you though is that their is really no scientific explanation as to why humans die. Do to their anaotmy and what not humans should be able to liver forever, or at least a much longer time than we are now.
exactly there is no scientific explanation. But there is a biblical reason.
Proof that scince and religion dont co-exist.
Death is the end of biological function, it’s that simple. Our bodies are far from perfect and there are so many aspects of the world and other life that threatens us. If life did last forever we wouldn’t even be here because natural selection wouldn’t be able to take place if there wasn’t death. You can’t honestly believe that the human body would be able to last forever.
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