| 02 Dec 2007 10:26 am |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 9  Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Posts: 1,652 OFFLINE | ramunematt wrote:
Evolution is not dogma or philosphy, it is science which has mountains of evidence to back it up and has transitional fossils that have proven it over, and over, and over again. Creationism is not science, it has nothing to back it up outside of biblical references. Same with Jesus. There is no evidence to back him up, or even any respectable records of him. Sure, Christians say the Romans have records of him. But don’t you think it’s a bit suspicious that the Romans, who were notorious for their records, don’t even mention the name Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazareth? Don’t you also find it suspicious that Jesus wasn’t the only “messiah” at the time and that he shared the same characteristics as other myths all about sons of gods that even predated him? There is no hard evidence for any of it, and no matter how much faith you have in Jesus or god or whatever, it doesn’t make it true. No matter how much you’ve heard the stories, it doesn’t make it true.
What about the records of his earthly judge Pontius Pilot and his references to Jesus of Nazareth?
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 | | 02 Dec 2007 06:18 pm |
Dr. Matt Rep: 48 Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,545 OFFLINE | Itachi Uchiha wrote:
Atlas of Creations...
A new big hit againts Evolutions and Darwinism and the truth of creatiosm
http://www.harunyahya.com/books/darwinism/atlas_creation_III/atlas_creation_III_01.php
try it...
Big hit? What I just read was the biggest load of biased, misleading, ignorant and uneducated piece of propaganda and straw mans strung together, EVER. If they think there is no evidence to support evolution and that we’re only here because of muddy water and a bunch of random coincidences, then they are obviously ignorant fundamentalists who know nothing about the subject of evolution and will do whatever it takes to bring it down to justify creationism even though they failed to provide a single piece of evidence that would support creationism. They obviously picked and chose what scientific evidence to endorse to further their “point” and ignore the evidence that would go against them, and they seem to ignore branching and transitional fossils that have been found all together. They also didn’t seem to know the difference between Darwinism and Social Darwinism (no, they have no relations to eachother) and what really made me sick was when they tried to mislead you into thinking their claim that there are no transition fossils between humans and apes was true by providing only a few pieces of false evidence and ignoring the many real transitional fossils that have been proven to be true. This read was the biggest waste of my time. I would have to say the biggest flaw of this entire thing would be that it is based on the argument from ignorance i.e. instead of trying to prove creationism by providing actual evidence or logic to actually suggest it’s true, they try to find flaws in evolution then say that since it has flaws the only other alternative is creationism. The last part made me laugh though, when they blamed Satan for making evolution.
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Zeitgeist: Addendum
Join “The Zeitgeist Movement”Last edited 02 Dec 2007 10:21 pm by ramunematt | | | 02 Dec 2007 07:02 pm |
Dr. Matt Rep: 48Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,545 OFFLINE | Unit_DTH wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Evolution is not dogma or philosphy, it is science which has mountains of evidence to back it up and has transitional fossils that have proven it over, and over, and over again. Creationism is not science, it has nothing to back it up outside of biblical references. Same with Jesus. There is no evidence to back him up, or even any respectable records of him. Sure, Christians say the Romans have records of him. But don’t you think it’s a bit suspicious that the Romans, who were notorious for their records, don’t even mention the name Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazareth? Don’t you also find it suspicious that Jesus wasn’t the only “messiah” at the time and that he shared the same characteristics as other myths all about sons of gods that even predated him? There is no hard evidence for any of it, and no matter how much faith you have in Jesus or god or whatever, it doesn’t make it true. No matter how much you’ve heard the stories, it doesn’t make it true.
What about the records of his earthly judge Pontius Pilot and his references to Jesus of Nazareth?
Well that depends, was that in the Bible? Because actual Roman records have not ever mentioned the name “Jesus of Nazareth”.
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Zeitgeist: Addendum
Join “The Zeitgeist Movement” | | | 03 Dec 2007 06:18 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 47 Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 10,212 OFFLINE | Big hit? What I just read was the biggest load of biased, misleading, ignorant and uneducated piece of propaganda and straw mans strung together, EVER. If they think there is no evidence to support evolution and that we’re only here because of muddy water and a bunch of random coincidences, then they are obviously ignorant fundamentalists who know nothing about the subject of evolution and will do whatever it takes to bring it down to justify creationism even though they failed to provide a single piece of evidence that would support creationism. They obviously picked and chose what scientific evidence to endorse to further their “point” and ignore the evidence that would go against them, and they seem to ignore branching and transitional fossils that have been found all together. They also didn’t seem to know the difference between Darwinism and Social Darwinism (no, they have no relations to eachother) and what really made me sick was when they tried to mislead you into thinking their claim that there are no transition fossils between humans and apes was true by providing only a few pieces of false evidence and ignoring the many real transitional fossils that have been proven to be true. This read was the biggest waste of my time. I would have to say the biggest flaw of this entire thing would be that it is based on the argument from ignorance i.e. instead of trying to prove creationism by providing actual evidence or logic to actually suggest it’s true, they try to find flaws in evolution then say that since it has flaws the only other alternative is creationism. The last part made me laugh though, when they blamed Satan for making evolution.
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No not satan but the people who think evolution is science and can be proven...
Then why dont you go his pers conferences and prove all what you said to him... if you have prove after all... And I doubt you dont have one...
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | | | 03 Dec 2007 06:24 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 47Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 10,212 OFFLINE | I dont blame you for you comments... if you so sure and evolutions is the right way why dont you go to his pers confereces there you can show the world what you believe...
And I doubt you can prove evolutions is right...
If evolutions has no flaws the that must be true... untill now there is no thing such as evolutions...
May I ask you something...??? Why dont we evolve to be immortal not limited by ages...??? Why dont we evolve to be bigger and stronger for phisical not brains....???
Why dont we evolve to be able to fly again just like bird did...???
Trilobite evolve...???
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | | | 03 Dec 2007 06:26 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 47Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 10,212 OFFLINE | In my country there are fish that said to be from pre historic and vanished... coecalanth if I’m not mistaken...
still exist untill now from PRE-HISTORIC TO MILLENIUM AGES THAT FISH NOT VANISHED...??? About 100 millions years ago... can you explain me... in Sulawesi Island... Sorry that’s the fact...
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | | | 03 Dec 2007 08:21 am |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 20 Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 1,581 OFFLINE | Ramunematt is precisely right on this one.
Itachi; you’re consistently making an idiot of yourself. Stop referring us to some biased idiot’s arguements, and formulate your own blindingly ignorant ones, yeah?
Itachi Uchiha wrote:
May I ask you something...??? Why dont we evolve to be immortal not limited by ages...??? Why dont we evolve to be bigger and stronger for phisical not brains....???
Why dont we evolve to be able to fly again just like bird did...???
Trilobite evolve...???
This proves that you hopelessly misunderstand evolution, so all of your arguments are null. If you can’t understand the basic principles of it; you’re not qualified to comment on it.
And if your only retort to this is 'read some shitty biased website from some uneducated moron', I’m going to stab you.
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Weapon of Mass Percussion
SoB AdminLast edited 03 Dec 2007 08:38 am by DrumIntoTheNight | | | 03 Dec 2007 03:18 pm |
Dr. Matt Rep: 48Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,545 OFFLINE | I don’t think I have to go to that guy’s conferences to prove him wrong. From what he wrote, no respectable scientist will take him seriously enough. So why should I? His arguments are no less flawed, propagandistic, or straw-man-like as those of Kent Hovind.
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Zeitgeist: Addendum
Join “The Zeitgeist Movement” | | | 03 Dec 2007 04:14 pm |
King of MVC Rep: 26 Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 8,489 OFFLINE | PS3KICKS360 wrote:
dark raider wrote:
evolution dosent exist
The sheer ignorance of christianity...
It has been scientifically proven to be true. I have never seen any proof of the Garden of Eden and of mankind started by two human beings who popped out of the ground... In fact if creationism is true... It means im related to you!!!
I really hate to agree with Dark Raider, or even defend him in any sense of the word. But evolution has not in fact been proven. Technically all evidence for evolution is circumstantial. If the big bang happened how scientists believe it might have, then there is a strong chance that evolution is true. But what is the evidence that the big bang theory is true? You’d have to be able to travel to the “edge of the universe” to check out if it is expanding or not.
How about we all stop making assumptions for a little bit? I agree there is a lot of evidence backing up evolution, I’m really not going to fight you guys on that. But you are truely ignorant if you feel that there is no evidence against evolution. People there is a reason evolution is a highly debated subject, there are scientists on both sides of the equation, producing facts and figures explaining the various phenomena of the universe, and to say which fact is true and which isn’t can’t easily be done.
True if you had some sort of degree in theoretical biology you could possibly sift through the information out there, weed out good facts from bad, but you don’t, we are a bunch of random people on the internet who in all reality don’t have a clue which facts are true and which aren’t.
I guess I’ll get down to actually debunking your statement. Accoring to evolution you are a 15th cousin to everybody on the planet, meaning yes, even if evolution is true your still related to Dark Raider.
Check and mate.
@ Ramunematt - Have you researched weather a scientists will take him seriuosly or not? How about before you make a blanket statement about the source he is citing you do some research on it. I know it’s a pain in the butt to go through all of that trouble to listen to something you dissagree with, but Ramunematt, how can you expect him to listen to your arguements if you won’t at least humor him and listen to his?
@ Everybody - Lets try to be a little bit more open and mature about all of this. Flaming won’t get you anywhere, name calling won’t get you anywhere, and insiting your way is the only way definately won’t get you anywhere.
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THE KING HAS RETURNED!Last edited 03 Dec 2007 04:16 pm by derdev789 | | | 03 Dec 2007 05:28 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 9Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Posts: 1,652 OFFLINE | ramunematt wrote:
Unit_DTH wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Evolution is not dogma or philosphy, it is science which has mountains of evidence to back it up and has transitional fossils that have proven it over, and over, and over again. Creationism is not science, it has nothing to back it up outside of biblical references. Same with Jesus. There is no evidence to back him up, or even any respectable records of him. Sure, Christians say the Romans have records of him. But don’t you think it’s a bit suspicious that the Romans, who were notorious for their records, don’t even mention the name Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazareth? Don’t you also find it suspicious that Jesus wasn’t the only “messiah” at the time and that he shared the same characteristics as other myths all about sons of gods that even predated him? There is no hard evidence for any of it, and no matter how much faith you have in Jesus or god or whatever, it doesn’t make it true. No matter how much you’ve heard the stories, it doesn’t make it true.
What about the records of his earthly judge Pontius Pilot and his references to Jesus of Nazareth?
Well that depends, was that in the Bible? Because actual Roman records have not ever mentioned the name “Jesus of Nazareth”.
Look it up, the main reason it isn’t in the “public” records of rome is because Pilate “washed his hands of Jesus' blood”. If you were afraid of some type of reprocutions from an entire system of belief would you not want to negate the fact that you were the bastard sentencing an innocent man?
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Last edited 03 Dec 2007 07:23 pm by Unit_DTH | | | 03 Dec 2007 07:25 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 9Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Posts: 1,652 OFFLINE | ramunematt wrote:
Unit_DTH wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Evolution is not dogma or philosphy, it is science which has mountains of evidence to back it up and has transitional fossils that have proven it over, and over, and over again. Creationism is not science, it has nothing to back it up outside of biblical references. Same with Jesus. There is no evidence to back him up, or even any respectable records of him. Sure, Christians say the Romans have records of him. But don’t you think it’s a bit suspicious that the Romans, who were notorious for their records, don’t even mention the name Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazareth? Don’t you also find it suspicious that Jesus wasn’t the only “messiah” at the time and that he shared the same characteristics as other myths all about sons of gods that even predated him? There is no hard evidence for any of it, and no matter how much faith you have in Jesus or god or whatever, it doesn’t make it true. No matter how much you’ve heard the stories, it doesn’t make it true.
What about the records of his earthly judge Pontius Pilot and his references to Jesus of Nazareth?
Well that depends, was that in the Bible? Because actual Roman records have not ever mentioned the name “Jesus of Nazareth”.
I am only asking this out of curiosity, but where did you study theological history?
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| | | 03 Dec 2007 08:39 pm |
King of MVC Rep: 26Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 8,489 OFFLINE | I have to agree with DTH on that one. Jesus of Nazareth was stricken from the record because Pilote didn’t want to be held responsible for the death of Jesus after his wife had a prophetic dream.
When Pilote “gave Jesus’s murder” to the Jewish priests he literally had the murder of Jesus of Nazareth taken from his name and placed upon the Jewish priests. Pilote and many others at the time knew that Jesus, weather his claims were true or not, would become a large historical figure, simply because he was an inspirational leader and teacher of the people, and being the spearhead behind this great man’s murder, especially in a society that believes your deads in life follow you into death, would not be something Pilote would have liked on his concious.
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THE KING HAS RETURNED!Last edited 03 Dec 2007 08:39 pm by derdev789 | | | 03 Dec 2007 11:40 pm |
bahaha--its me Guest | Unit_DTH wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Unit_DTH wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Evolution is not dogma or philosphy, it is science which has mountains of evidence to back it up and has transitional fossils that have proven it over, and over, and over again. Creationism is not science, it has nothing to back it up outside of biblical references. Same with Jesus. There is no evidence to back him up, or even any respectable records of him. Sure, Christians say the Romans have records of him. But don’t you think it’s a bit suspicious that the Romans, who were notorious for their records, don’t even mention the name Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazareth? Don’t you also find it suspicious that Jesus wasn’t the only “messiah” at the time and that he shared the same characteristics as other myths all about sons of gods that even predated him? There is no hard evidence for any of it, and no matter how much faith you have in Jesus or god or whatever, it doesn’t make it true. No matter how much you’ve heard the stories, it doesn’t make it true.
What about the records of his earthly judge Pontius Pilot and his references to Jesus of Nazareth?
Well that depends, was that in the Bible? Because actual Roman records have not ever mentioned the name “Jesus of Nazareth”.
Look it up, the main reason it isn’t in the “public” records of rome is because Pilate “washed his hands of Jesus' blood”. If you were afraid of some type of reprocutions from an entire system of belief would you not want to negate the fact that you were the bastard sentencing an innocent man?
yeah, that makes sense. wish id seen that earlier. man, i should go back to studying the bible.
| | | 03 Dec 2007 11:41 pm |
Ace of 'Nades Rep: 65 Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 16,506 OFFLINE | Phazon Elite Aliens
Omega Giant Enemy Crabz. 
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 | | | 04 Dec 2007 03:24 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 47Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 10,212 OFFLINE | This proves that you hopelessly misunderstand evolution, so all of your arguments are null. If you can’t understand the basic principles of it; you’re not qualified to comment on it.
And if your only retort to this is 'read some shitty biased website from some uneducated moron', I’m going to stab you.
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Are we???
Why dont you just debate him and make us believe what you believe and prove us what all your saying is right about evolution...
I always debating people who think evolutions is right... they always run from me... Now... If you really believe evolution is the right way... find him and meet him and prove him that you are right person in a right place...
Easy right... Adnan Oktar always meeting people who believe evolutions is right... now the evolutions side must do the same thing like he did meeting people who believe creatiosm is wrong...
simple...
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | | | 04 Dec 2007 06:09 am |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 20Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 1,581 OFFLINE | You misunderstand.
Again.
There is nothing to discuss.
The overwhelming scientific evidence supports evolution, as do all sane people with a sense of logic, who aren’t blinded by their own stupidity and 'faith'. I haven’t heard a single logical argument from you yet. And that’s because:
There isn’t one.
There isn’t a single shred of evidence to support creationism. This is why all you’ve done is try to pick holes in a theory that’s far more complex than your comprehension, as opposed to actually finding evidence for your side of the argument.
It’s a typical response of someone who believes something simply because he’s been told it’s right. Well, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee.
You’re wrong.
Creationism is the single most absurd theory in the world today, and belief in such a thing instantly dismisses so many fundamental scientific principles, purely because it’s inconvenient for you that we’ve dated rocks to be 65 million years old, when you believe the earth to be 8000 odd old.
So here’s a proposition for you:
Don’t you dare dismiss a theory you don’t understand. Having been to a conference and read a single book does not make you qualified to comment on evolution. The belief that it does shows unfathomable arrogance.
Before you dismiss anything further from my point of view; go and read a book or two. It’d do you good.
Instead of simply regurgitating 'EVOLUTION IS TEH WURK OF SATAN', grow the fuck up.
Read a basic physics text book. A biology textbook. A scientific journal on evolution. Hell, fucking wiki it.
Until you can grasp and understand the science behind evolution, every argument you pose is baseless.
I will have a hell of a lot more respect for you if you can come up with a reasoned argument with some science and cold, hard fact behind it.
But... I sincerely doubt you can. You’re going to say 'meet this dude', or 'the Bible/Qu’ran/script from Star Wars says this'.
I don’t want to hear it.
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Weapon of Mass Percussion
SoB AdminLast edited 04 Dec 2007 06:09 am by DrumIntoTheNight | | | 05 Dec 2007 02:39 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 47Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 10,212 OFFLINE | that just ur opinions...
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | | | 06 Dec 2007 06:22 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 47Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 10,212 OFFLINE | I will have a hell of a lot more respect for you if you can come up with a reasoned argument with some science and cold, hard fact behind it.
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I do come with true facts with Atlas of Creations... there are pictures that showing the false of evolutions but you just ignoring that...
I’m showing to you the true facts of creatiosm but you just ignoring that... afterall you show me nothing...
Coecalanth fish not extinct but they still exist untill now... the evolusionst think that they are the first fish and gone forever... but now the facts show the opposite... now show me the true facts of evolutions...
I should saying this to you... dont talk about creatiosm is false untill you bring us the true facts of evolutions... untill now no one of you showing us the the true facts of evolutions...
I do read sciences book like you mention before...
This is what evolusionist did to his kind...
1. Stalin
2. Lenin
3. Hitler
4. Mao Tze Dong
and so on...
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | | | 06 Dec 2007 06:59 am |
is causing chaos. Rep: 29 Joined: 04 Jul 2006 Posts: 8,135 OFFLINE | Haha someone’s pissed 
Stab it stab it stab it
| | | 06 Dec 2007 08:03 am |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 20Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 1,581 OFFLINE | Itachi Uchiha wrote:
I do come with true facts with Atlas of Creations... there are pictures that showing the false of evolutions but you just ignoring that...
I’m showing to you the true facts of creatiosm but you just ignoring that... afterall you show me nothing...
I should saying this to you... dont talk about creatiosm is false untill you bring us the true facts of evolutions... untill now no one of you showing us the the true facts of evolutions...
I do read sciences book like you mention before...
Those aren’t remotely close to facts.
Coecalanth fish not extinct but they still exist untill now... the evolusionst think that they are the first fish and gone forever... but now the facts show the opposite... now show me the true facts of evolutions...
This is why you need to read a book not written by a religious nutter. You misunderstand evolution.
This is what evolusionist did to his kind...
1. Stalin
2. Lenin
3. Hitler
4. Mao Tze Dong
and so on...
What the fuck?
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Weapon of Mass Percussion
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