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Vincent Valentine vs Sephiroth

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#161
16 Jan 2008 10:24 am
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Buster Sword wrote:
Are you going to debate the battle or not im tired of throwing evidence your way and getting ENIX this Enix that pish posh lol, lets just get on with the debate Vincent DoC vs Sephiroth AC head to head in Migar both no the battle ground well so should be about fair dont you think.

WAY to completley dodge absolutely EVERYTHING because it disproves your theory of Chaos being the most powerful being in VII. What has Enix got to do with anything? Posh? Wtf are you talking about?
Vincent would need to transform into Chaos to have a chance against Sephiroth.

Here we have DoC document 1 important things to notice are,

1, Vincent and Yuffie are both in the opening of Dirge because in FF7 thy wer optional Charicters who arnt presant in the end FMV of the first game so this fills in why.


Optional characters doesn’t mean they weren’t a part of the story.

2, Vincent heared a rumour Hojo still lived after an earliar fight with Cloud and the Gang so he left to check it out Yuffie was out helping Surviveors escape Migar before Meteor hit.

And?

3, When Meteor Hits Cloud and Co had barely maneged to escape the crater and bored Cids ship Vincent and Yuffie are atop the Mako cannon when Meteor hits this shows both Vincent and Yuffie never fought Sephiroth at th end of FF7 in cronoligy.

Meteor didn’t actually hit until they had boreded the ship. What has Vincent and Yuffie not fighting Sephiroth aledgidly got to do with anything?

4, The scene in AC were Cloud and Co fight Sephiroth in the opening shows base form Sephie when in reality they fought Saifer Sephiroth at the end of FF7 this and the fact Marlene says there were many battles surgests that Vincent did help fight Sephiroth at one point just not at the end of FF7.

Actually, you’ve missed out completley, the scene where the gang are shown, they were fighting either Bizzaro or Jenova Synthesis, look at the background. Cloud wasn’t fighting a base Sephiroth, that was a spiritual battle, actually, The Sephiroth in the game is more powerful than the Pre Niblehiem Sephiroth. So no base Sephiroth.
How can Vincent help fight Sephiroth, but not at the end? The crew thought Sephiroth ONCE, AT THE END

Noted feats are:

a, Dodgeing Missile fire Base Form

b, Shooting down a chopper with his Cirberus demonstrateing its raw power

c, He jumps at least 30ft in the air.

a. Cloud can dodge bullets and lighting based attacks, even dodging and parry Sephiroth, your point?

b. So Vincent’s strength flows through his bullets?

c. Cloud jump to the top end of the Midgar tower, and?
Noted Feats of Sephiroth:
He can fly
He can send buildings with sheer mind
He can bend his own lifestream to his will
Manipulating the lifestream means he can summon materia
He is EXTREMELY skill in combat
His strength is beyond anybody in VII
He’s the more powerful of the two by quite some margin


1. So onward with the debate then?

2. Yes they were in the story but not evryone was able to collect Yuffie and Vincent meaning if they suddenly appeared out of th blue in the end sequence the fan’s would be left confused as to who they were just showing they wernt presant during the final confrontation with Sephiroth, and therefore show’s he was never pwned by Sephiroth or had a chance to use Chaos on him.

FFVII Ending:


FFVII Secret Ending:


here is proof They both dident appar in the end sequence.

3. Patiance my freind just explaining why they wernt their is all Vincent went to finish Hojo but Meteor hit, and Yuffie was helping straggler’s (Vincent tell’s her to go meet up with Cloud but she stay’s and help’s him escape the Mako Cannon.

4. It work’s on a basis that Sephiroth has never pwned Vincent or fought his true power before that is what it has to do with the debate.

5. The backround is completely immersed in Darkness leaveing the wereabout’s unknown, i agree Seph had become stronger since Crisis Core that is a given but it could have been Jeanova Sephie witch he had been controlling since wipeing out the Shinra corperation?

I realise Vincent and Co crossed path’s with Sephie on many occation’s during VII hence Marlene saying “there were many battle’s” but notice after she say’s that it show’s Cloud putting Airith in the lake, each scene is in order of occurance as it happened in the game in that opening meaning that fight they all had with Sephiroth was when Airith was killed and Vincent had just been awaken.

So it was most likely Jeanova being manipulated by Sephiroth.

6. Im marely building a case there are more feat’s to come but i want actual footage for backing if you get me?, would be nice if you did the same kk.

a, Dodgeing a missile and it’s explossive range at point blank like that is harder than avoiding a bullet or a bolt of lightning (what’s harder to avoid a granade at point blank or a bullet from a distance)?

b, This isnt so much showing of strenth but accuracy while flying through the air and the power of his weapon kk (strenth feat’s will come).

c, Just accumulateing his hight jumped so far i know it get’s higher just building it up factualy from the footage kk.

Nice feat’s but post proof to back them so we know what each is capable of kk.

Valentine feat’s part 2:

Vincent vs Nero


Basically Nero the Sable was injected in the womb with a stagnent Mako strrain witch killed his mother at birth an experiment born from the Jeanova Project it give’s the user the ability to take his opponent’s into a dark dimention a sort of void were the opponent’s mind become’s unhinged and eventualy crushed by the darkness surrounding them.

Vincent is able to sheild Yuffie from it’s effect’s because he hold’s greater darkness within him (Chaos) and take’s on Nero in his own domain in his most powerful state.

Feat’s:

a, withstanding Nero’s Darkness
b, Defeating Nero in Dark Dimention

Vincent v Weiss


A few thing’s to note here, feat’s mostly go to Weiss in this regard but important information is also Given regarding Vincent and DG.

a, DG Houses the strongest being’s on the planet as stated by Hojo and came directly from SE.

b, Vincent has an indistructable body due to Hojo’s Experiment’s as stated by Hojo he will never age or tarnish (ruin), this may explain why Vincent is uneffected by Chaos final attack on Omega.

Due to Hojo’s experiment’s Vincent can metamorph (tranceform) into verious beast’s of shape shift as it were makeing him ideal to house Chaos.

Feat’s: (mostly Weiss but this is just to sanctify Chaos power aswell).

a, Weiss knock’s Vincent’s bullet’s from the air with little effort with his BARE hand’s (and they take down numourus aircraft)

b, Weiss slashe’s Vincent’s bullet’s from an inch in front of him like it was nothing.

c, Weiss also demonstrate’s strenth impailing Nero with his hand and tossing him several feat with one arm.

d, Weiss down’s Vincent with a simple kick.

Vincent vs Weiss round 2:



This one is rather good for both Vincent Chaos and Weiss,

feat’s,

a, Weiss move’s so fast he timeslow’s right down practicaly flick’s debis out of the air at Vincent.

b, Vincent call’s on the power of Chaos from within forgeing his own Mako Feild around himself and Weiss (Mako equal’s MP and an infinate supply to call upon generateing your own feild).

c, Vincent useing Chaos can easily avoid both the debris Weiss shoot’s at him and all of his sword attack’s, he also show’s impressive speed upon the final slash when he dodge’s it take’s some time for the debris to fall after he has jumped.

well that’s it for now will bring more soon hopeu find your’s kk.
---


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Last edited 16 Jan 2008 10:31 am by Kyle Knight
#162
17 Jan 2008 06:03 pm
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Ohh and new’s just in AC and it’s UO were released 9th of september 2005 DoC was released 26th of january 2006 that is two and a half month’s differance like i said outdatted.
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#163
17 Jan 2008 06:07 pm
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Kyle Knight wrote: Ohh and new’s just in AC and it’s UO were released 9th of september 2005 DoC was released 26th of january 2006 that is two and a half month’s differance like i said outdatted.


Oh wait, is that what you wanted to know the releases for? Cause it doesn’t matter. UO features a section of DoC. DoC was already complete, or nearly complete, when the UO was released.
---

#164
18 Jan 2008 07:36 am
Buster Sword
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Kyle Knight wrote: Ohh and news just in AC and its UO were released 9th of september 2005 DoC was released 26th of january 2006 that is two and a half months differance like i said outdatted.

That gives SE two months to make DoC, are you being rediculous?

1. So onward with the debate then?

I don’t really care because you’ve shown you ignore pretty much everything I say anyway.

And another thing, if Weiss really does have Jenova cells, then he’s already lost to Sephiroth.

2. Yes they were in the story but not evryone was able to collect Yuffie and Vincent meaning if they suddenly appeared out of th blue in the end sequence the fans would be left confused as to who they were just showing they wernt presant during the final confrontation with Sephiroth, and therefore shows he was never pwned by Sephiroth or had a chance to use Chaos on him.

They’re main characters, so therefore in the story. You’re saying they’re in the story but they aren’t?

here is proof They both dident appar in the end sequence.

I know they weren’t shown in the actual footage, but they were still apart of avalanche and very much apart of the story. And why are you showing me XIII’s ending for? As if Yuffie is gonna be there 500 years later LOL.

3. Patiance my freind just explaining why they wernt their is all Vincent went to finish Hojo but Meteor hit, and Yuffie was helping stragglers (Vincent tells her to go meet up with Cloud but she stays and helps him escape the Mako Cannon.

But how do you know that they didn’t fight Sephiroth and the leave before Cloud too him on?

4. It works on a basis that Sephiroth has never pwned Vincent or fought his true power before that is what it has to do with the debate.

So Vincent wasn’t a part of the story then?

5. The backround is completely immersed in Darkness leaveing the wereabouts unknown, i agree Seph had become stronger since Crisis Core that is a given but it could have been Jeanova Sephie witch he had been controlling since wipeing out the Shinra corperation?

Not when it shows the gang AND Vincent, the background was green.
It was no Jenova Sephiroth, because 1: Jenova was already defeated and 2: that battle was a sprirtual battle, so no Jenova and even if it was, it would have been under Sephiroth’s influence.

I realise Vincent and Co crossed paths with Sephie on many occations during VII hence Marlene saying there were many battles but notice after she says that it shows Cloud putting Airith in the lake, each scene is in order of occurance as it happened in the game in that opening meaning that fight they all had with Sephiroth was when Airith was killed and Vincent had just been awaken.

When she says alot of battles she refers to the battles throughout the game. What the hell? Aeris gets killed WAY before they fight Sephiroth, I don’t where you got that from. And no it’s not in order sequence at all. Because why would the sister ray at midgar be shown before they show Sephiroth in the fire and the scene with Jenova?

So it was most likely Jeanova being manipulated by Sephiroth.

That wasn’t Sephiroth they fought, it was a part of Jenova.

6. Im marely building a case there are more feats to come but i want actual footage for backing if you get me?, would be nice if you did the same kk

Have you seen AC? If so then I don’t need footage to back me up if you’ve seen it, like I don’t need footage of DoC because I’ve played the game.


a, Dodgeing a missile and its explossive range at point blank like that is harder than avoiding a bullet or a bolt of lightning (whats harder to avoid a granade at point blank or a bullet from a distance)?

One, the missiles were NOT at point blank range, the canon/grenade wasn’t put at his head, and missiles are easier to see than bullets, but lets not get picky eh? And sorry to inform you but missiles are not faster than lightning, lightinig travels 100,000 miles an hour or nearly 300 miles a second. Missiles travel about 6000 METREs not miles a second.

b, This isnt so much showing of strenth but accuracy while flying through the air and the power of his weapon kk (strenth feats will come).

Vincent can’t fly anymore than Cloud can, because neither of them can, they can just do insane jumps.

Nice feats but post proof to back them so we know what each is capable of kk.


I need to prove Sephiroth can do the feats he displays? That doesn’t make sense.

Basically Nero the Sable was injected in the womb with a stagnent Mako strrain witch killed his mother at birth an experiment born from the Jeanova Project it gives the user the ability to take his opponents into a dark dimention a sort of void were the opponents mind becomes unhinged and eventualy crushed by the darkness surrounding them.

Vincent is able to sheild Yuffie from its effects because he holds greater darkness within him (Chaos) and takes on Nero in his own domain in his most powerful state.

Feats:

a, withstanding Neros Darkness
b, Defeating Nero in Dark Dimention

Actually, Nero isn’t that much of a fighter, without his darkness any Tsviet would beat him, and *sighs* Nero’s darkenss doesn’t work on Sephiroth because Sephiroth has the most powerful will. Sephiroth has willed his complelty destroyed body back to near perfection.

A few things to note here, feats mostly go to Weiss in this regard but important information is also Given regarding Vincent and DG.

a, DG Houses the strongest beings on the planet as stated by Hojo and came directly from SE.

Did Hojo say it or did SE say it? Because there’s a big difference, oh and I like how you’re using SE to back you claims when I showed you that Sephiroth is the most powerfullest but you rejected it.
Hojo also thought Cloud was a failure, he thought the clones would move to the Shinra building, he thought Jenova was the on pulling the strings, so his statement isn’t rreally valid, if you can give me SE proof then I’ll just show you the Sephiroth proof.
Due to Hojos experiments Vincent can metamorph (tranceform) into verious beasts of shape shift as it were makeing him ideal to house Chaos.


I knew this from VII, why are you telling me this for?

a, Weiss knocks Vincents bullets from the air with little effort with his BARE hands (and they take down numourus aircraft)

b, Weiss slashes Vincents bullets from an inch in front of him like it was nothing.

c, Weiss also demonstrates strenth impailing Nero with his hand and tossing him several feat with one arm.

d, Weiss downs Vincent with a simple kick.

You’re only making Vincent look bad here.
a. Are we talking about Weiss or Vincent here?

b. It wasn’t an inch, do you know how big and inch is? Omfg Cloud was blocking bullets like at the same distance (which is more like a yard or two in both Weiss’s and Cloud’s case) while riding a bike.

c. Sephiroth sends Cloud into the shinra building, slices the falling bit into peices.

d. Stop making Vincent look bad lmao.

This one is rather good for both Vincent Chaos and Weiss,

feats,

a, Weiss moves so fast he timeslows right down practicaly flicks debis out of the air at Vincent.

b, Vincent calls on the power of Chaos from within forgeing his own Mako Feild around himself and Weiss (Mako equals MP and an infinate supply to call upon generateing your own feild).

c, Vincent useing Chaos can easily avoid both the debris Weiss shoots at him and all of his sword attacks, he also shows impressive speed upon the final slash when he dodges it takes some time for the debris to fall after he has jumped.

well thats it for now will bring more soon hopeu find yours kk.

I thought this was Vincent, not Chaos? Why are you using Chaos’s aumentations to Vincent?

a. He flicks debris, that’s not the same as bullets.

b. Mako is not your MP. When does it say Mako=MP?

c. I’ll stress again, debris aren’t shot out of a barrel

Oh and Vincent isn’t indestructable, he’s 'near indestructable.
#165
18 Jan 2008 10:09 am
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near indestructable is near enough... also id like to say this match is a draw.
#166
18 Jan 2008 11:02 am
Buster Sword
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Then he’s still destructable, if Rosso rippe a hole in his chest, and Sephiroth is the most powerful, so it isn’t a draw I’m affraid, I didn’t say this SE did.
#167
24 Jan 2008 11:40 am
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1. In th Ultima Omega it even say’s DoC isnt finished yet...

2. He isnt suseptible to them Hojo wanted him free of Jeanova’s influance and charged by pure mako untainted by Sephiroth’s neggative Life Stream.

3. They are in the story just not the final confrontation

4. lol Vincent very well could be tho

5. because they were in the northern Crater and just got out when meteor arrived, Vincent and Yuffie were helping people in Midgar escape BEFORE it hit Vincent just got of the Mako Cannon before the tower collapsed when Meteor hit as seen in the end of FF7 when the Shinra Corperation building was hit.

6. He was he just was optional Vincent had his own agenda being Hojo witch was his highest priority he dident want to live he hated what he had become a ghost from the past so revenge was his only motivation (he say’s in DoC tho that it was Cloud and the other’s that taught him you can move on from your past).

7. Agreed Sephiroth was controling Jeanova, but it’s unlikely the final confrontation,

1, How would Vincent get from the crater to Migar that fast

2, Why help fight his first form then leave when he take’s a stronger form?, they would have needed him more i think.

8. Jeanova influanced by Sephiroth killed Arith they were all presant at the time they cuold have fought him there quight easily.

9. Influanced by Sephiroth...

10. Well it just help’s to have evidence presance incase you need it.

11. The Chopper was outside his window (hence point blank) the range the explotion took out is alot greater than a bullet and harder to escape, Kadaj’s lightning was quight slow as seen in the trailer it slowly home’s in on an opponent not an instant flash.

12. Yea like when Cloud back flip’s from the Shinra building and is seen accending up through the debris no flying their, or when he is seen fighting Sephiroth in midair is knocked back and seen hovering in the air looking for sephiroth before he is knocked into the shinra building???

13. You need to post feat’s of Sephiroth demonstrateing the ability’s you say he has?

14. Nero the Sable hasnt alot to do with the fight between Vincent and Seph but it’s unproven he could survive Nero’s darkness.

15. SE obviously named DG the strongest being’s on the planet as Hojo is a game CHARICTER so it came from the creator’s.

16. just makeing sure your awear he can do that lol

17.

a, Weiss, he could deflect Bullet’s that take down advanced aircraft with his bare fleash

b, Three bullet’s right near his chest and he had enough time to pull both his sword’s of his belt and slash them at that range, Cloud already has his weapon out and it’s a big fucking sword covering his whole side for a start blocking 1 bullet witch mistake me if im wrong you can actually see.

c. Yea Sephiroth with a built up momentumed charge knocked Cloud into that building, Weiss just stood their threw Nero that same distance.

d. It dousent Vincent beat Russo Azul and Nero and nearly everyone else Weiss downing him with a kick is impressive.

18.

a, it’s more of a speed feat by Weiss he flicked debris out of the air at quight some speed witch Vincent avoided multipe time’s.

b, Well whatever it is it juiced up Vincent to the degree he could move and fight on par with Weiss in normal form.

c. It’s the fact time had to be slowed down to show it.

Vincent is probably the most tolirable person in FF7 even with his chest tore open h heal’s it within thetime you next see him and is fine.
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#168
24 Jan 2008 11:42 am
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dude you can go of on one with the size of your posts
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#169
24 Jan 2008 11:56 am
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I know lol
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#170
24 Jan 2008 11:58 am
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that would kill my hands taping that much
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#171
24 Jan 2008 12:07 pm
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lazy sod it help’s in a debate if your willing to go the extra mile to convince someone
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#172
24 Jan 2008 12:08 pm
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i would if there was a dabate that intrests me anuth
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#173
24 Jan 2008 12:20 pm
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well how about i make one
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“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
#174
24 Jan 2008 12:21 pm
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go for it man
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#175
24 Jan 2008 12:28 pm
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ok hold up
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#176
24 Jan 2008 12:30 pm
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ok man make it a good one
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#177
24 Jan 2008 02:21 pm
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It’s really good
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“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
#178
25 Jan 2008 05:38 am
Buster Sword
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. In th Ultima Omega it even says DoC isnt finished yet...


So why do the Tsviets have Ultimania Profiles?
2. He isnt suseptible to them Hojo wanted him free of Jeanovas influance and charged by pure mako untainted by Sephiroths neggative Life Stream.

This isn’t Jenova’s influence any more, this is Sephiroths.

3. They are in the story just not the final confrontation

So why was the background green?

4. lol Vincent very well could be tho

I hope not, it steals the fire from Red XIII’s tail LOL

5. because they were in the northern Crater and just got out when meteor arrived, Vincent and Yuffie were helping people in Midgar escape BEFORE it hit Vincent just got of the Mako Cannon before the tower collapsed when Meteor hit as seen in the end of FF7 when the Shinra Corperation building was hit.

By this time Sephiroth was beaten...meteor hits after Cloud confronts Sephiroth.


6. He was he just was optional Vincent had his own agenda being Hojo witch was his highest priority he dident want to live he hated what he had become a ghost from the past so revenge was his only motivation (he says in DoC tho that it was Cloud and the others that taught him you can move on from your past).

No, he was a part of the story, the option is the gamers choice, not the storyline.

7. Agreed Sephiroth was controling Jeanova, but its unlikely the final confrontation,

It’s unlikely Sephiroth is controlling Jenova in the final confrontation? I told you it WASN’T Jenova. I said [b]IF[/b}

1, How would Vincent get from the crater to Migar that fast

How did Cloud get to the Forgotten Capital on his Fenrir? Different scenrio, same question.

2, Why help fight his first form then leave when he takes a stronger form?, they would have needed him more i think.

Because he did help and fight.

8. Jeanova influanced by Sephiroth killed Arith they were all presant at the time they cuold have fought him there quight easily.

But they didn’t that’s the whole point of me telling you this, they didn’t fight Sephiroth until the END.


9. Influanced by Sephiroth...

It’s still not Sephiroth.

10. Well it just helps to have evidence presance incase you need it.

It’s fine dude, I’ve played it and I also have the event viewer xD


11. The Chopper was outside his window (hence point blank) the range the explotion took out is alot greater than a bullet and harder to escape, Kadajs lightning was quight slow as seen in the trailer it slowly homes in on an opponent not an instant flash.

Then it’s not point blank then, because it’s not next to him. Omnislash is shown slower than it actually is, why is lightning any different? How would you see these moves if they went as fast as they should? And Actually when Kadaj uses it against Cloud for the last time, that was slo mo.

12. Yea like when Cloud back flips from the Shinra building and is seen accending up through the debris no flying their, or when he is seen fighting Sephiroth in midair is knocked back and seen hovering in the air looking for sephiroth before he is knocked into the shinra building???

Cloud defys physics but he can’t fly. He just has insane jumps. If he could fly he wouldn’t have need the helping 'push' to Bahamut. But he can still keep up with flying opponents


13. You need to post feats of Sephiroth demonstrateing the abilitys you say he has?

Like I said just watch the fight man, whats the point in me posting it if you have the movie?

14. Nero the Sable hasnt alot to do with the fight between Vincent and Seph but its unproven he could survive Neros darkness.

Does having the most powerful will not mean anything to you? It means Sephiroths Mental power > Neros.

15. SE obviously named DG the strongest beings on the planet as Hojo is a game CHARICTER so it came from the creators.

No, you’re using what HOJO said. SE are the makers and never confirmed this, and go on tell me about all the incorrectness of Hojo, he didn’t even believe Chaos existed, so how is he a relieable source?


16. just makeing sure your awear he can do that lol

No worries, I know, but thanks anyway.

17.

a, Weiss, he could deflect Bullets that take down advanced aircraft with his bare fleash

But these same bullets did jack shit to Bahamut.


b, Three bullets right near his chest and he had enough time to pull both his swords of his belt and slash them at that range, Cloud already has his weapon out and its a big fucking sword covering his whole side for a start blocking 1 bullet witch mistake me if im wrong you can actually see.

He wasn’t blocking one bullet, he even dodges one under the tunnel in the motor cycle chase scene, I’m 99% sure of it, because he spins his bikes in a 360 motion to avoid it.

c. Yea Sephiroth with a built up momentumed charge knocked Cloud into that building, Weiss just stood their threw Nero that same distance.

Cloud threw Sephiroth out the building, and he’s weaker than Sephiroth, smacked Bahamut down and is still weaker than Sephiroth.

d. It dousent Vincent beat Russo Azul and Nero and nearly everyone else Weiss downing him with a kick is impressive.

That’s because the 3 Tsviets aren’t as powerful as you’re making them out to be.

18.

a, its more of a speed feat by Weiss he flicked debris out of the air at quight some speed witch Vincent avoided multipe times.

Debris aren’t bullets.

b, Well whatever it is it juiced up Vincent to the degree he could move and fight on par with Weiss in normal form.

He is using Chaos though but staying as Vincent but I don’t mind you could even use Chaos if you wanted or said at the start.

c. Its the fact time had to be slowed down to show it.

Did I say any different? Why do you say this an avoid the fact that omnislash is faster than what it seems?

Vincent is probably the most tolirable person in FF7 even with his chest tore open h heals it within thetime you next see him and is fine.

Cloud gets mega flared, impaled. And is fine. And Vincent was unconcious.
#179
25 Jan 2008 08:49 am
Buster Sword
Guest
Also I watched the scene again with Cloud fighting Yazoo, he actually dodges the bullet at point blank range, why? Because the gun was put at Cloud’s head (in front of his face to be precise), and Yazoo still missed him.
#180
25 Jan 2008 02:17 pm
Buster Sword
Guest
http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?t=91104

COMPILATION CHECK

The approach of Meteor
Where was Yuffie then?

During the ending of ueeuhhv, both Yuffie and Vincent were absent from sight. Where were they during that time — - The key to answering such questions lies in the opening of ucbv. As Meteor drew within closer proximity of Midgar, the 2 of them were directing the evacuation of the cityi¨oDPRSj. Thanks to the activities of Yuffie and

Thanks to the activities of Yuffie and the rest, an unexpected character managed to escape death EEEEEEi¨oDXOj. (editor’s note: They’re referring to Rufus ShinRa...)

The Compilation Ultimania was released in 2007 after DC, and the creators are not contradicting anything they’ve said or explained within there.
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