Pete da Beast wrote:
Hmm, actually, you guys know that Goku is sperior to pretty much anyone in DBZ in the end of DBZ, counting Mystic Gohan, Gotenks SSJ3 and Super Buu all together?
This is both in the anime and in the manga.
He trains for 10years from the end of the Buu saga to the fight with Uub and also trains after that.
On those ten years he reaches a base lvl equivalent to SSJ3 form the Buu saga just going by 3.4x his strength per year.
Notice Goku usually goes from 300x to 500x his strength every year, 3.4x is just keeping it short.
This was proved in the GOKU VS SUPERMAN thread.
I agree with this but it wouldn’t be an easy fight...
Now Kid Buu is by far too much for even him to handle, so it was KB, Vegeta (the dude trained a lot as well), Gohan AND Gotenks there would be NO way for him to win...
Now Goku in the Buu Saga was stronger for sure (not by HELLA but enough) or at least his equal...
Then you think about the fact that anime Goku whoops manga Goku’s ass so it’d be EVEN easier for the latter to beast on people like Gohan, Gotenks, Buu, Vegeta and the works...
TheUltimateSaiyanBroly wrote:
Here If You Like... We Can go Step By Step...Say ONE thing And I’ll try To Explain it.. if I Cant Then your Right.. if We Disagree We Can Talk It Out.
Then Once We Get past that We Can move on To number 2..
I’m trying To be As open Minded And Accepting As possible
So Bring The 1st Statement so We Can Focus On Debunking It together, One Fact At A Time..
Fine lets play,
First Issue: Goku vs Fat Buu
I dont belive Goku could have beaten him due to histime and power restraint (mabe all out from theget go) but still he would have to give it some major power due to all his attacks were not effecting Buu at all.
i think thats enough for you to form a responce too id go on but step by step is probably better, get one thing down before others riiiiight.
---
“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
Kyle Is A DBZ Fan Like The Rest of Us So He Deserves My Respect And Time.. If I Know Something, He Is Worth Explaining It To.
Well This Is Easily Explained By Goku..
I Hate To Sound Repetitive But The Fact of The Matter Is This: “3 Color Coded Explanations Below”
Goku’s Only Reason For Confronting fat buu Was To Stall him.. nothing Else ... not To Fight... Not To Not Try.. Just To Observe And Leave Just long Enough For Trunks To get the Radar.. He Never Intended To Hurt Buu (Unlike Gohan Who Confronted Super Buu to kill him Stated by gohan Himself) Afterwards Goku Explains To Piccolo The Following:
He Says To piccolo That He Could Have beaten Fat buu But He Wanted Goten And trunks To Do it Since It Was there Rightful Place Amongst the Living.. And Goku Being Dead Felt It Was not His Place. (This Statement Is Seperate From The Kid buu Statement And Is Not To be Confused.)
This is Extremely Convincing of Gokus Power And Ability To Destroy Fat buu If he tryed.. As he Was Owning Him Just By Doing nothing (He Was even Talking To trunks And Thinking To Himself While Doing It.
One More Fact Is “Technically” Vegeta Was More Powerful Than Fat Buu At SS2.. the Only Reason Buu Was Still Around Is His Regeneration Ability.. Other Than That, Buu Got His Ass HAnded To Him By Vegeta SS2 Which was = To Goku SS2 Stated By Goku.
This Right Here Should Prove Goku’s Vast Superiority In SS3.
So You have 3 Things
2 Facts From Statements Goku Made (Blue/Green), And An Example (Red)
There Is More Proof But It Comes When We Talk About Kid Buu.
--- "BROLY - The Legendary Super Saiyan 3"
Last edited 02 Dec 2007 02:16 pm by TheUltimateSaiyanBroly
Kyle Is A DBZ Fan Like The Rest of Us So He Deserves My Respect And Time.. If I Know Something, He Is Worth Explaining It To.
Well This Is Easily Explained By Goku..
I Hate To Sound Repetitive But The Fact of The Matter Is This: “3 Color Coded Explanations Below”
Goku’s Only Reason For Confronting fat buu Was To Stall him.. nothing Else ... not To Fight... Not To Not Try.. Just To Observe And Leave Just long Enough For Trunks To get the Radar.. He Never Intended To Hurt Buu (Unlike Gohan Who Confronted Super Buu to kill him Stated by gohan Himself) Afterwards Goku Explains To Piccolo The Following:
He Says To piccolo That He Could Have beaten Fat buu But He Wanted Goten And trunks To Do it Since It Was there Rightful Place Amongst the Living.. And Goku Being Dead Felt It Was not His Place. (This Statement Is Seperate From The Kid buu Statement And Is Not To be Confused.)
This is Extremely Convincing of Gokus Power And Ability To Destroy Fat buu If he tryed.. As he Was Owning Him Just By Doing nothing (He Was even Talking To trunks And Thinking To Himself While Doing It.
One More Fact Is “Technically” Vegeta Was More Powerful Than Fat Buu At SS2.. the Only Reason Buu Was Still Around Is His Regeneration Ability.. Other Than That, Buu Got His Ass HAnded To Him By Vegeta SS2 Which was = To Goku SS2 Stated By Goku.
This Right Here Should Prove Goku’s Vast Superiority In SS3.
So You have 3 Things
2 Facts From Statements Goku Made (Blue/Green), And An Example (Red)
There Is More Proof But It Comes When We Talk About Kid Buu.
Nice opening, id like to ge something clear lol
1. I think Goku would kick Buu’s ass if he went all out, but im just trying to gather an exact placement on Goku’s power, but because of Goku’s time restrictions and energy loss its tough to say because Buu survived Final Explotion everything Majin Vegeta had...so Buu could just outlast SSJ3 and pwn SSJ2 Goku.
Anyway...
Goku indeed fought Fat Buu just to stall him but you must remember (open mindedly) there is alot to surport that even all out Goku couldent have taken this, important things to notice about the fight are these,
Goku vs Buu
1. Goku dousent hurt Buu at all, he is unfazed throughout the match (so ask yourself how much power would Goku have to exert to beat Buu, and how much time and energy that would waist)???
2. Fat Buu enjoy’s the whole fight wanting more, and as the fight wore on Buu seemed to stalemate Goku even haveing Goku quote “man fighting at this intensity and he’s haveing the time of his life” Buu was still learning from his battles all the time Goku even calls him a talented fighter so he was clearly impressed.
3. Goku is hit in the fight quight a few times, despite holding back like Gohan did against Super Buu, Goku was faceing a much weaker foe aswell but was still batted around abit in apose to Gohan flooring Super Buu flawlessly.
4. Goku tell’s Piccolo “after all Majin Buu isnt your average oponnent, mabe i never stood a chance” (episode 232) this dispute’s that Goku was uncertain if he could win and was only speculateing on the subject, so in reality the outcome is uncertain.
5. Goku only had 30 min’s alive after that fight with Buu witch after a brief Demonstration by Goten and Trunks is used up in a few seconds, he would not have the time and energy to finish Buu.
So despite wanting the kid’s to fight we now no the real facts are throuout there battle neither gained any ground Buu wanted more and Goku had 10 min’s tops left of power and time, i dont think he had enough to pull the win when Buu can stalemate his power with endurance like that, and he has survived everything Majin threw at him allout who Goku SSJ2 is on par with...sooooo if Goku dousent go all out on Buu it dousent matter what he says he isnt gonna win without SSJ3.
I personaly think that’s a fair assumption, ive give my veiw’s on the fight and from what ive seen workedout both’s strenth’s and weakness, and it go’s in favor of Buu you can have all the power you want but if your opponent can take it “In the end it dousent really matter” lol
---
“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
Yea it did seem weird that Goku was haveing trouble with Buu despite holding back, yet Gohan was mopping the floor with a much stronger Buu...
Your both useing too types of argument,
1. TheUltimateSaiyanBroly is useing Quotes witch are said fact’s witch arnt really facts just assumptions and opinion.
2. Kyle is useing the flow of the battle, as in how it went down to logicaly formulate who is stronger (and i have to say im impressed).
I alway’s thought Goku would beat Fat Buu flawlessly, but after watching the show and following Kyle’s little guide it became apparent, that Goku may not have been able to beat the beast, i mean he did all that and never slowed Buu down never tired him out and he was hungry for more...thats how it went down.
Now after this Goku only maneges to go SSJ3 for about ten seconds for Goten and Trunks as a demonstration this uses his final half hour in seconds, now i dunno about you but its like Mr Knight said the probability Goku could take down Buu is a narrow one at that.
I think as Kyle douse time and energy were huge factors of the fight along with Buu’s regeneration, if Goku builds his energy to take Buu down his time in that form is cut surverely and without SSJ3 Goku loses plain and simple.
No hard feeling’s TheUltimateSaiyanBroly thats just how i feel the battle would play out, Goku going all out is speculation at best really, however if you find anything with Akira Toriyama’s veiw then that is the word of God my freind and is undebateable.
Come to think of it i have a detailed report of his talking about all this lol, im sure he go’s on to say he had alway’s had plan’s to make Gohan the strongest in the series lol or something like that so i dunno ill find it out and post it out kk.
So i dunno about the battle of the Buu’s but im pretty sure Gohan who exert’s no energy or strain and isnt bound by time restriction’s is alot stronger than Goku...but Goku hold’s the edge in skill im assumeing.
Lathen Hide wrote:
Yea it did seem weird that Goku was haveing trouble with Buu despite holding back, yet Gohan was mopping the floor with a much stronger Buu...
Your both useing too types of argument,
1. TheUltimateSaiyanBroly is useing Quotes witch are said fact’s witch arnt really facts just assumptions and opinion.
2. Kyle is useing the flow of the battle, as in how it went down to logicaly formulate who is stronger (and i have to say im impressed).
I alway’s thought Goku would beat Fat Buu flawlessly, but after watching the show and following Kyle’s little guide it became apparent, that Goku may not have been able to beat the beast, i mean he did all that and never slowed Buu down never tired him out and he was hungry for more...thats how it went down.
Now after this Goku only maneges to go SSJ3 for about ten seconds for Goten and Trunks as a demonstration this uses his final half hour in seconds, now i dunno about you but its like Mr Knight said the probability Goku could take down Buu is a narrow one at that.
I think as Kyle douse time and energy were huge factors of the fight along with Buu’s regeneration, if Goku builds his energy to take Buu down his time in that form is cut surverely and without SSJ3 Goku loses plain and simple.
No hard feeling’s TheUltimateSaiyanBroly thats just how i feel the battle would play out, Goku going all out is speculation at best really, however if you find anything with Akira Toriyama’s veiw then that is the word of God my freind and is undebateable.
Come to think of it i have a detailed report of his talking about all this lol, im sure he go’s on to say he had alway’s had plan’s to make Gohan the strongest in the series lol or something like that so i dunno ill find it out and post it out kk.
So i dunno about the battle of the Buu’s but im pretty sure Gohan who exert’s no energy or strain and isnt bound by time restriction’s is alot stronger than Goku...but Goku hold’s the edge in skill im assumeing.
tata
This is all bullshit I’ve refutd, you guys just restate speculation which I’ve already taken care of. Goku pwns Gohan, it’s as simple as that...
Lathen Hide wrote:
Yea it did seem weird that Goku was haveing trouble with Buu despite holding back, yet Gohan was mopping the floor with a much stronger Buu...
Your both useing too types of argument,
1. TheUltimateSaiyanBroly is useing Quotes witch are said fact’s witch arnt really facts just assumptions and opinion.
2. Kyle is useing the flow of the battle, as in how it went down to logicaly formulate who is stronger (and i have to say im impressed).
I alway’s thought Goku would beat Fat Buu flawlessly, but after watching the show and following Kyle’s little guide it became apparent, that Goku may not have been able to beat the beast, i mean he did all that and never slowed Buu down never tired him out and he was hungry for more...thats how it went down.
Now after this Goku only maneges to go SSJ3 for about ten seconds for Goten and Trunks as a demonstration this uses his final half hour in seconds, now i dunno about you but its like Mr Knight said the probability Goku could take down Buu is a narrow one at that.
I think as Kyle douse time and energy were huge factors of the fight along with Buu’s regeneration, if Goku builds his energy to take Buu down his time in that form is cut surverely and without SSJ3 Goku loses plain and simple.
No hard feeling’s TheUltimateSaiyanBroly thats just how i feel the battle would play out, Goku going all out is speculation at best really, however if you find anything with Akira Toriyama’s veiw then that is the word of God my freind and is undebateable.
Come to think of it i have a detailed report of his talking about all this lol, im sure he go’s on to say he had alway’s had plan’s to make Gohan the strongest in the series lol or something like that so i dunno ill find it out and post it out kk.
So i dunno about the battle of the Buu’s but im pretty sure Gohan who exert’s no energy or strain and isnt bound by time restriction’s is alot stronger than Goku...but Goku hold’s the edge in skill im assumeing.
tata
This is all bullshit I’ve refutd, you guys just restate speculation which I’ve already taken care of. Goku pwns Gohan, it’s as simple as that...
Ta ta suckas...
As i thought, it’s beyond you to make a decent argument, suckas lol why do you never surprise me
---
“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
Kyle Is A DBZ Fan Like The Rest of Us So He Deserves My Respect And Time.. If I Know Something, He Is Worth Explaining It To.
Well This Is Easily Explained By Goku..
I Hate To Sound Repetitive But The Fact of The Matter Is This: “3 Color Coded Explanations Below”
Goku’s Only Reason For Confronting fat buu Was To Stall him.. nothing Else ... not To Fight... Not To Not Try.. Just To Observe And Leave Just long Enough For Trunks To get the Radar.. He Never Intended To Hurt Buu (Unlike Gohan Who Confronted Super Buu to kill him Stated by gohan Himself) Afterwards Goku Explains To Piccolo The Following:
He Says To piccolo That He Could Have beaten Fat buu But He Wanted Goten And trunks To Do it Since It Was there Rightful Place Amongst the Living.. And Goku Being Dead Felt It Was not His Place. (This Statement Is Seperate From The Kid buu Statement And Is Not To be Confused.)
This is Extremely Convincing of Gokus Power And Ability To Destroy Fat buu If he tryed.. As he Was Owning Him Just By Doing nothing (He Was even Talking To trunks And Thinking To Himself While Doing It.
One More Fact Is “Technically” Vegeta Was More Powerful Than Fat Buu At SS2.. the Only Reason Buu Was Still Around Is His Regeneration Ability.. Other Than That, Buu Got His Ass HAnded To Him By Vegeta SS2 Which was = To Goku SS2 Stated By Goku.
This Right Here Should Prove Goku’s Vast Superiority In SS3.
So You have 3 Things
2 Facts From Statements Goku Made (Blue/Green), And An Example (Red)
There Is More Proof But It Comes When We Talk About Kid Buu.
Nice opening, id like to ge something clear lol
1. I think Goku would kick Buu’s ass if he went all out, but im just trying to gather an exact placement on Goku’s power, but because of Goku’s time restrictions and energy loss its tough to say because Buu survived Final Explotion everything Majin Vegeta had...so Buu could just outlast SSJ3 and pwn SSJ2 Goku.
Anyway...
Goku indeed fought Fat Buu just to stall him but you must remember (open mindedly) there is alot to surport that even all out Goku couldent have taken this, important things to notice about the fight are these,
Goku vs Buu
1. Goku dosent hurt Buu at all, he is unfazed throughout the match (so ask yourself how much power would Goku have to exert to beat Buu, and how much time and energy that would waist)???
2. Fat Buu enjoy’s the whole fight wanting more, and as the fight wore on Buu seemed to stalemate Goku even haveing Goku quote “man fighting at this intensity and he’s haveing the time of his life” Buu was still learning from his battles all the time Goku even calls him a talented fighter so he was clearly impressed.
3. Goku is hit in the fight quight a few times, despite holding back like Gohan did against Super Buu, Goku was faceing a much weaker foe aswell but was still batted around abit in apose to Gohan flooring Super Buu flawlessly.
4. Goku tell’s Piccolo “after all Majin Buu isnt your average oponnent, mabe i never stood a chance” (episode 232) this dispute’s that Goku was uncertain if he could win and was only speculateing on the subject, so in reality the outcome is uncertain.
5. Goku only had 30 min’s alive after that fight with Buu witch after a brief Demonstration by Goten and Trunks is used up in a few seconds, he would not have the time and energy to finish Buu.
So despite wanting the kid’s to fight we now no the real facts are throuout there battle neither gained any ground Buu wanted more and Goku had 10 min’s tops left of power and time, i dont think he had enough to pull the win when Buu can stalemate his power with endurance like that, and he has survived everything Majin threw at him allout who Goku SSJ2 is on par with...sooooo if Goku dousent go all out on Buu it dousent matter what he says he isnt gonna win without SSJ3.
I personally think that’s a fair assumption, ive give my veiw’s on the fight and from what ive seen workedout both’s strenth’s and weakness, and it go’s in favor of Buu you can have all the power you want but if your opponent can take it “In the end it dousent really matter” lol
1) Goku may not Have Hurt buu At All But then again He Never Intended To.. But I See Your Point.. From Just This Its Hard To tell But If You Take Other Parts Of The Show And Look At the overall Info You Will See More of The Big Picture..
Such As Kabito Kai saying That Kid Buu is The Strongest Incarnation of buu.. And Then Goku Saying he Could Have Beat Kid Buu If He Went All out.. This To Me Tips The Scale We Just Discussed in Gokus Favor Since Kid Buu Is Far Superior To Fat Buu.
2) I See No Reason Why Goku Shouldnt Be Impressed.. Buu Is One Hell Of A Creature.. But This Really Says Nothing About Either Of Them.
3) Goku Was Holding Back And That Probably Why He Got Hit in the 1st Place.. but I Know FOr Sure Gohan Was Not Holding back Against Super Buu.. Gohan Says Something along the Lines Of “No I Came Here To Kill You” ... When Goku Said In His Mind.. Something alsong the Lines of “I just need To Distract Buu long Enough To Get the Radar”.
4) The Reason He Said that Was Because He Was Unsure Of The Extent Of buu’s Power, But if You remember.. Goku Said He Could Have Beaten Him.. When he said This It Was Assuming That This Was All that There Is To buu, Which There Was Really nothing more Than What He Experienced..
5) And This Is Exactly why Goku States That He Could Have beaten Kid Buu If He Had Gone All out At the Beginning Of The Fight And Kid Buu being stronger Than Fat Buu This Says Alot In gokus Defense (Note This Is Goku Alive When He Stated This, Not Dead.. So there Is No Time Restraint On His Time Left on Earth Only His Transformation Unlike When He Fought Buu).
6) This Is Why Things Get Confusing.. Goku is Clearly Restricted When He Was Dead.. As He Shows No Sign Of Wear Or Worry Against A Fighter (Kid Buu) Stronger Than Mr. FATTY (Fat buu).
I Myself Am Trying To get to The Bottom Of This Show Lol.
So Thanks For Your Input It Sure Does Complicate Things But It Still Seems There Is More To Be Counted For Before We Close This Case.
--- "BROLY - The Legendary Super Saiyan 3"
Last edited 03 Dec 2007 09:19 pm by TheUltimateSaiyanBroly
1. Im awear overall Goku could have probably beat Fat Buu but this mean’s 2 thing’s,
a, Goku would have to raise his power to eliminate Fat Buu (and he can come back from less than air molicules) would he have the time and energy in his ristricted form...i dunno.
b, Gohan would clearly be stronger due to toying with a much strongerfoe without trying.
2. It shows Buu was still learning and improveing and even in Goku’s most intence level of power Buu was haveing the time of his life, it go’s along way to showing Buu wasnt even close to death with all those attack’s
3. Gohan toyed with Buu remember in his Episode a whole new Gohan he knocks Buu on his ass and say’s “you can get up now, i know your not hurt not from an attack like that” this shows restraint by Gohan, he also smashes Buu to the floor andis behind him without him noticeing instead of killing him he say’s “pst behind you, hi nice day” to me these arnt the actions of someone trying to kill someone.
a, Gohan uses no beam attacks/Goku douse this shows Gohan dident wanna vaporize Buu, and Goku (who wasnt sure of the extent of Buu’s power) was seeing what he could take.
4. Nahhh Buu was still improveing all the time Goku said “mabe he could have” “mabe not” he knew about the energy loss and time restriction on his body and to beat Buu is uncertain with his regeneration.
5. here are thing’s your forgetting
a, Fat Buu was weakened by Evil Buu when they split
b, Goku said he pobably could beat Kid Buu
c, He couldent reach his max output in power
d, Kid Buu was uneffected by any of Goku’s attacks
e, Kid Buu fought Goku 2wice Vegeta 3 times and Fat Buu, not to mention fought for control of the SSB witch Goku got full power back for...
6. Actually in other world SSJ3 was easy in the liveing he told Vegeta his body chugs abit and its alot harder to maintain.
you may pick the next argument for Goku if you wish, and thanks for being open about this alot of people seem to have trouble accepting new idea’s and aspects (ULXR) and you suddenly become a fanboy aparently.
---
“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
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