zeta_evolved wrote:
it is impossible for humans to cross the red sea in matter of minutes
the story also says that half way the Egyptians caught u to them and then in minutes they end up crossing
honestly I don’t believe in this
half way? i thought they caught up to em in the end but by then the sea was closing. And it wasn’t a matter a minutes. I think i remember reading that it said it took em a whole day or something like that...
who cares just learn the moral of the story
Which is... what?
perseverance against all odds and to learn to be patient and hopeful
Well isn’t that easier to say than telling a story about a bunch of Egyptians getting killed?
There is not a shred of evidence that would suggest that. Even the Egyptians don’t have any historical record of having Jews as slaves.
Yet again you ignore my arguement. Look Matt, I know it’s easy to tear these guys arguements up, but that doesn’t mean you can overlook the legitimate case brought to you, such as mine. It’s very rude.
zeta_evolved wrote:
it is impossible for humans to cross the red sea in matter of minutes
the story also says that half way the Egyptians caught u to them and then in minutes they end up crossing
honestly I don’t believe in this
half way? i thought they caught up to em in the end but by then the sea was closing. And it wasn’t a matter a minutes. I think i remember reading that it said it took em a whole day or something like that...
who cares just learn the moral of the story
Which is... what?
perseverance against all odds and to learn to be patient and hopeful
How about you go with the real lesson behind the story? Listen and do not question the authory of man or of God and you will be saved from your transgressions and those who would wish to transgress against you.
y u telling me? goddamn it tell it to the so called “atheist”
Because you make christians look bad, so I figure I might as well inform you, that way in the future when you make your arguements, they won’t embarress me or others who might have found you to be an authoritive figure on the matter, only to realize that most of your thoughts and idea’s were unfounded.
1 who da fuck are you taking me for?
2 I’m not even debating
3 did you even read my “moral”?
4 you don’t even know me nor have talk to me for like bring out conclusions of me thinking I’m fucking god
5 damn!!!
zeta_evolved wrote:
it is impossible for humans to cross the red sea in matter of minutes
the story also says that half way the Egyptians caught u to them and then in minutes they end up crossing
honestly I don’t believe in this
half way? i thought they caught up to em in the end but by then the sea was closing. And it wasn’t a matter a minutes. I think i remember reading that it said it took em a whole day or something like that...
who cares just learn the moral of the story
Which is... what?
perseverance against all odds and to learn to be patient and hopeful
How about you go with the real lesson behind the story? Listen and do not question the authory of man or of God and you will be saved from your transgressions and those who would wish to transgress against you.
y u telling me? goddamn it tell it to the so called “atheist”
Because you make christians look bad, so I figure I might as well inform you, that way in the future when you make your arguements, they won’t embarress me or others who might have found you to be an authoritive figure on the matter, only to realize that most of your thoughts and idea’s were unfounded.
1 who da fuck are you taking me for?
2 I’m not even debating
3 did you even read my “moral”?
4 you don’t even know me nor have talk to me for like bring out conclusions of me thinking I’m fucking god
5 damn!!!
1. I believe I have already explained that, you make christians look unintelligent, and that is why I am talking to you, to try to inform you so in the future you can make more intelligent arguements.
2. Your in the religious debate forum, as such everything you write is a part of the debate.
3. Yes I did, you fell very far from the actual message in the scriptures. You were thinking new testiment, when the story was written in the old testiment for the hebrews, do your research as to the historical reasons behind the story.
4. I don’t think your God, in fact you are very far from it, I was mearly pointing out that you are not only incorrect, but uneducated, and you need to leave the debate forums until you have learned more about the arguements you are trying to make.
5. Yes, you should be damned.
1 talk to the real christians here, now they will tell you who I am
2 No, if I defy the mere idea of the thread then yes I’m debating as long as I’m not then sorry
3 I don’t think you did, perhaps I was far from being correct but I tried as an atheist to “inform” another atheist my guess you never got it
4 of course I’m far away from being a god for it I’d have to put my ppl in pain and suffering and as I don’t believe I am a giant spaghetti meatball monster, I won’t think I’m better than others
5 well ain’t pretty for a “intelligent” christian to curse others you make Jesus so proud
zeta_evolved wrote:
1 talk to the real christians here, now they will tell you who I am
2 No, if I defy the mere idea of the thread then yes I’m debating as long as I’m not then sorry
3 I don’t think you did, perhaps I was far from being correct but I tried as an atheist to “inform” another atheist my guess you never got it
4 of course I’m far away from being a god for it I’d have to put my ppl in pain and suffering and as I don’t believe I am a giant spaghetti meatball monster, I won’t think I’m better than others
5 well ain’t pretty for a “intelligent” christian to curse others you make Jesus so proud
1. I’m one of the christians on here, my account might be banned, but I’m still derdev789 and I’m still one of the only christians that actually knows how to argue without breaking down into freaking tears.
2. Hey, if your here you better debate, you can go to the off-topic to get away from the debates, but never try to claim inside of this forum that you aren’t open for arguement and debate.
3. Wonderful for you, but don’t defend something you know little about. That just sets up a straw man for Ramunematt to knock down, which he will, quickly. If you don’t know the facts going into something, if you haven’t researched it in great length, then you have no reason to talk about it. I’ve tried telling this to Itachi, but he apparently doesn’t get the concept either.
4. It’s good that I didn’t call you a god then and agreed with you when you said you weren’t one huh? You sure like to come up with rediculous arguements with little backing. It seems to be a talent of yours.
5. It’s isn’t smart for an atheist who hasn’t studied the bible as a historical text to believe that they have found the true meaning behind the verses in the old testiment which was written roughly 3.6 thousand years ago. When you take scripture out of the context of the time it was written, it losses much of it’s meaning, you need to take into account the political climate, the threats, ect going on at the time to truely analyze a verse. As for the swearing, you started it, and since we are in fact going over the old testiment, I will go with the old testiment law that state “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”.
I’m not trying to change the subject, I refuting the statements that you made with carefully thought out responses, a courtesy that you seem not to have shared with me. Opting instead on quick brash statement, ment I am sure to cut me in some metaphysical way.
You said “Damn." as a response to my arguement. Which didn’t damn me so much as damn the statement I had written. I chose instead to damn you, as my statement itself had no way of defending itself. I took it upon myself to defend my statement from you, just as you took it upon yourself to defend your statements from me.
No where did I call you stupid. I told you that you “Make christians look bad” and that your “idea’s were unfounded."
I don’t recal partnering with anybody on here. In fact I distinctly remember telling ignorant saps that they needed to leave simply because I couldn’t stand being forced to partner with them as they had a tendancy to drag my idea’s threw the mud to try and prove there own foolish rants.
Hacking accounts is something I don’t know how to do. Although with a little more time studying C++ I’m sure that I could make something work. But since I have made no threats in this capacity I would advise you not to mention hacking as it goes against MVC’s rules. And to quote you “you can’t stand ppl you obviously dislike” I defy you to find one person who can stand people they dislike. In fact the very idea behind the word dislike is one of people who you cannot stand.
You seem to have many thoughts going through your head, but you need to remember to complete on before moving on to the next, I believe you are refering to at the begining of the statement is that you think you “own”. No I don’t believe you “own”, or that you think you “own”. The last part I am sure is a referance to my stint as the King of MovieCodec, an event in which I was named King of MovieCodec by many of the older members of the site and which evolved into somewhat of a personal joke.
Your new to the site, so I will let you slide, but I should at least let you know that most of the christians who are good at debating have long since given up on arguing with stuborn mules like Zucas and Ramunematt, in fact there are probably only one or two of us left. If you happen to be refering to Itachi, as a good christian arguer, then I have no choice but to shake my head in shame. The only thing worse than a fool is one who respects the (lack of) idea’s coming from a fool.
Oh no trust me when I refer to a great christian I mean someone who has shown the true nature of a tolerant and respectful christian still I will not mention his/her name so you can then burn their integrity as I know you will as you just did with Ichita u obviously are not showing such nature
when talking about hacking, you talk how to hack, have I ever mention on how to hack? no I have not, and several events have gave you that reputation
yes no one can stand to be with ppl they dislike but you in an obvious way showed that the very presence of someone is enough to ban her/him
you did call me stupid by saying “unintelligent arguments”
how do you think a person is going to perceive the meaning of that?
I haven’t really had a fight with both Zucas and Matt since we are in the same side but different poles though yet I do know wat is like to argue with hard headed ppl and I back off since there’s no point in doing so
I may have been here for 3 months now yet I’ve grown friendships with many ppl here, I maybe not be bigger than you have but I can tell, u that of those who have gotten to know me, do know I’m a nice and friendly person and ppl like you with comments like calling ppl stupid and idiotic (you use rhetorical sentences in a way in which you are not mentioning stupid nor idiot) just make it go away
and how do I make Christians look bad? I never said “Oh Christians are so stupid to blahblahblah” No I never did
Derdev on the Red Sea wrote:
Ramunematt that was back around 1650 BC, there are relatively little reliable documents dating that far back, and almost none that can be translated into a language that we can understand. So yes it isn’t technically proven that the jewish people are slaves. But if you look in the Torah there are many referances to Roman society.
The Roman’s were obsessed with the dead, there greatest book being the Book of the Dead. As a revulting reflex to this history of slavery by those obsessed with the afterlife, they created many laws the prohibit any contact with the dead. In fact there is a law that priests are unable to touch dead bodies, which seems to be the pinacle of how the jewish people tried to juxtapose themselves against there old captors.
As for the actual question at hand. Yes the Red Sea is a large body of water, now. But 3.6 thousand years ago it might not have been the same. Believe it or not over long periods of time, bodies of water shift due to rain patterns, currents, ect. There is a good chance that what is now a large sea was nothing more than a pond 'back in the day'. And if that is true the jewish people could easily have crossed.
Now I don’t want to get into the supernatural too much so I will offer up two explainations. First, you mentioned that wind has been shown to be able to part the Red Sea. Well 'back in the day' the Red Sea was surrounded by a dessert that could reach incredibly high temperatures, if a stray gust happened to part the sea, it would also be warm enough to dry out the land it had just revealed in a matter of moments. This would allow for quick travel by the jewish people.
Secondly, if this is truely divine intervention at work, then the laws of physics don’t really apply now do they? A being with the ability to single handedly summon the universe probably wouldn’t have too much trouble parting the Red Sea so that his people can cross it. Assuming he exists of course.
I guess what I’m trying to say is. It is actually very possible for these things to happen.
Pawnt.
u mean Egyptians not Romans right? Teh Egyptians had the book of the dead.
But u are right about how there are few historical records from that time but there are records showing that a few hundred years before the story of Moses supposedly took place Israel was in a time of plague and debt. This is also mentioned in the Bible. Also records show taht Egyptians did have slaves (but not necassariliy Jewish ones...it wasn’t mentioned who they were). Also many Bible events have been seen in some records such as Egypts plagues). Just thought i’d add that in...
o and not to mention the fact that in the back of a version of the Bible (my bible) it shows teh trail Moses took. He crossses teh Red Sea in a very samll area...one that prbly could’ve been walked across in a day or two.
Derdev on the Red Sea wrote:
Ramunematt that was back around 1650 BC, there are relatively little reliable documents dating that far back, and almost none that can be translated into a language that we can understand. So yes it isn’t technically proven that the jewish people are slaves. But if you look in the Torah there are many referances to Roman society.
The Roman’s were obsessed with the dead, there greatest book being the Book of the Dead. As a revulting reflex to this history of slavery by those obsessed with the afterlife, they created many laws the prohibit any contact with the dead. In fact there is a law that priests are unable to touch dead bodies, which seems to be the pinacle of how the jewish people tried to juxtapose themselves against there old captors.
As for the actual question at hand. Yes the Red Sea is a large body of water, now. But 3.6 thousand years ago it might not have been the same. Believe it or not over long periods of time, bodies of water shift due to rain patterns, currents, ect. There is a good chance that what is now a large sea was nothing more than a pond 'back in the day'. And if that is true the jewish people could easily have crossed.
Now I don’t want to get into the supernatural too much so I will offer up two explainations. First, you mentioned that wind has been shown to be able to part the Red Sea. Well 'back in the day' the Red Sea was surrounded by a dessert that could reach incredibly high temperatures, if a stray gust happened to part the sea, it would also be warm enough to dry out the land it had just revealed in a matter of moments. This would allow for quick travel by the jewish people.
Secondly, if this is truely divine intervention at work, then the laws of physics don’t really apply now do they? A being with the ability to single handedly summon the universe probably wouldn’t have too much trouble parting the Red Sea so that his people can cross it. Assuming he exists of course.
I guess what I’m trying to say is. It is actually very possible for these things to happen.
Pawnt.
u mean Egyptians not Romans right? Teh Egyptians had the book of the dead.
But u are right about how there are few historical records from that time but there are records showing that a few hundred years before the story of Moses supposedly took place Israel was in a time of plague and debt. This is also mentioned in the Bible. Also records show taht Egyptians did have slaves (but not necassariliy Jewish ones...it wasn’t mentioned who they were). Also many Bible events have been seen in some records such as Egypts plagues). Just thought i’d add that in...
o and not to mention the fact that in the back of a version of the Bible (my bible) it shows teh trail Moses took. He crossses teh Red Sea in a very samll area...one that prbly could’ve been walked across in a day or two.
You are right, for once I misspoke. I really wish I had my account back so that I could edit posts when I mess up.
Derdev on the Red Sea wrote:
Ramunematt that was back around 1650 BC, there are relatively little reliable documents dating that far back, and almost none that can be translated into a language that we can understand. So yes it isn’t technically proven that the jewish people are slaves. But if you look in the Torah there are many referances to Roman society.
The Roman’s were obsessed with the dead, there greatest book being the Book of the Dead. As a revulting reflex to this history of slavery by those obsessed with the afterlife, they created many laws the prohibit any contact with the dead. In fact there is a law that priests are unable to touch dead bodies, which seems to be the pinacle of how the jewish people tried to juxtapose themselves against there old captors.
As for the actual question at hand. Yes the Red Sea is a large body of water, now. But 3.6 thousand years ago it might not have been the same. Believe it or not over long periods of time, bodies of water shift due to rain patterns, currents, ect. There is a good chance that what is now a large sea was nothing more than a pond 'back in the day'. And if that is true the jewish people could easily have crossed.
Now I don’t want to get into the supernatural too much so I will offer up two explainations. First, you mentioned that wind has been shown to be able to part the Red Sea. Well 'back in the day' the Red Sea was surrounded by a dessert that could reach incredibly high temperatures, if a stray gust happened to part the sea, it would also be warm enough to dry out the land it had just revealed in a matter of moments. This would allow for quick travel by the jewish people.
Secondly, if this is truely divine intervention at work, then the laws of physics don’t really apply now do they? A being with the ability to single handedly summon the universe probably wouldn’t have too much trouble parting the Red Sea so that his people can cross it. Assuming he exists of course.
I guess what I’m trying to say is. It is actually very possible for these things to happen.
Pawnt.
u mean Egyptians not Romans right? Teh Egyptians had the book of the dead.
But u are right about how there are few historical records from that time but there are records showing that a few hundred years before the story of Moses supposedly took place Israel was in a time of plague and debt. This is also mentioned in the Bible. Also records show taht Egyptians did have slaves (but not necassariliy Jewish ones...it wasn’t mentioned who they were). Also many Bible events have been seen in some records such as Egypts plagues). Just thought i’d add that in...
o and not to mention the fact that in the back of a version of the Bible (my bible) it shows teh trail Moses took. He crossses teh Red Sea in a very samll area...one that prbly could’ve been walked across in a day or two.
You are right, for once I misspoke. I really wish I had my account back so that I could edit posts when I mess up.
np
i’m a wiz at history...i have a very good understanding of everything from Ancient Times up to WW2.
There is not a shred of evidence that would suggest that. Even the Egyptians don’t have any historical record of having Jews as slaves.
Yet again you ignore my arguement. Look Matt, I know it’s easy to tear these guys arguements up, but that doesn’t mean you can overlook the legitimate case brought to you, such as mine. It’s very rude.
Yeah, I had work today. I couldn’t read through the whole thing and reply.
Anyway, if there are very little reliable documents dating that far back, then the claim that Jews were used as slaves can no more be proven than leprechauns or some other mythical creature. Although it sounds more plausible than mythical creatures, there are many other claims about people in that time that anybody could have just made up on the spot. The Red Sea (Reed Sea?) could have been parted in ways that don’t involve the supernatural. For example, recently there was an earthquake that caused the Red Sea to part. Now if this is what happened in the time Exodus says it took place, when people had very little knowledge of this kind of thing, it would have been easy for them to assume it was god because it looks unnatural. I would personally find the scientific explanation more plausible and satisfying than the supernatural being involved in the Red Sea was parted.
There is not a shred of evidence that would suggest that. Even the Egyptians don’t have any historical record of having Jews as slaves.
Yet again you ignore my arguement. Look Matt, I know it’s easy to tear these guys arguements up, but that doesn’t mean you can overlook the legitimate case brought to you, such as mine. It’s very rude.
Yeah, I had work today. I couldn’t read through the whole thing and reply.
Anyway, if there are very little reliable documents dating that far back, then the claim that Jews were used as slaves can no more be proven than leprechauns or some other mythical creature. Although it sounds more plausible than mythical creatures, there are many other claims about people in that time that anybody could have just made up on the spot. The Red Sea (Reed Sea?) could have been parted in ways that don’t involve the supernatural. For example, recently there was an earthquake that caused the Red Sea to part. Now if this is what happened in the time Exodus says it took place, when people had very little knowledge of this kind of thing, it would have been easy for them to assume it was god because it looks unnatural. I would personally find the scientific explanation more plausible and satisfying than the supernatural being involved in the Red Sea was parted.
well actually records state the Egyptians had slaves...every advanced civilization back then did. It doesn’t mean they were Jewish though but it is a posssibility. ANd yes you are right about the Red Sea possibly parting from an earthquake however (as much as u might not like it) it is still a possibility of God’s work. We may never know what caused it to part whether it was God or just an earthquake...but we do have a good idea that Egyptians had slaves.
There is not a shred of evidence that would suggest that. Even the Egyptians don’t have any historical record of having Jews as slaves.
Yet again you ignore my arguement. Look Matt, I know it’s easy to tear these guys arguements up, but that doesn’t mean you can overlook the legitimate case brought to you, such as mine. It’s very rude.
Yeah, I had work today. I couldn’t read through the whole thing and reply.
Anyway, if there are very little reliable documents dating that far back, then the claim that Jews were used as slaves can no more be proven than leprechauns or some other mythical creature. Although it sounds more plausible than mythical creatures, there are many other claims about people in that time that anybody could have just made up on the spot. The Red Sea (Reed Sea?) could have been parted in ways that don’t involve the supernatural. For example, recently there was an earthquake that caused the Red Sea to part. Now if this is what happened in the time Exodus says it took place, when people had very little knowledge of this kind of thing, it would have been easy for them to assume it was god because it looks unnatural. I would personally find the scientific explanation more plausible and satisfying than the supernatural being involved in the Red Sea was parted.
That’s why I gave both explainations. Thanks for finally looking at it Ramunematt.
do u really think that the jews luckily stumbled upon a parted red sea when they were fleeing from the egyptian army and right when they reached the other side the sea closed up and quickly engulfed the egyptians?
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