Watchman wrote:
and yet the world situation remains the same.....thats a another problem. everybody is ususally preoccupied with their situation even though the wars, chaos, plague, starvation are increasing and increasing. Its like their’s this blind refusal to wake up. No, its kinda like a belief that its not going to happen and that if I continue what i’m doing everything might work out?
you woke up you say...i think that you’ve gone back to sleep again No matter what you do outside Christ, all the negatives in this world will continue....
You know what’s funny? I can root wars, chaos, plague and starvation right back to religion! If there was no religion, there would be no wars about who’s god is best or who deserves this holy land. If there were no religion, there would be no chaos for pretty much the same reason there would be no wars. If there were no religion, we wouldn’t be plagued with the dogmatic ideas of religion itself that have caused a lot of this. And finally, if there were no religion we could use ALL that money that is spent on churches, synagogues, temples, publishing holy books, and missionaries... and use it to feed the hungry instead!
And actually, as I remember, it was pretty much like waking up from a dream when I became an atheist. I don’t believe in talking snakes or worship Jewish zombies anymore.
I like the way you casually forget about disease, plague, drought, weather climate, eathquakes, (all natural disasters) murder, greed, politics, raciam (all the isms) etc etc,
all of which are increasingly at an alarming rate, and just focus on religion.....you’re still dreaming....but thats typical of people who think that the world can be changed by removing this and that....as for money spent in religion and charity, compare that to the 130.000 pounds a week that the a good european football player gets for kicking a ball to the 25.000 a year a nurse gets for healing people........the whole thing sucks and you still try to justify it.
I think the most common misconception of religion and even Jesus or Moses' 10 Commandments... is that they did NOT invent morality. Not killing each other was “law” long before these religions were around, simply because if we are to prosper as a race and a pack/tribe/society, we cannot be killing ourselves. It’s called “Social Law”, and it naturally instills the “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” mentality, and encourages us to help each other. The more you help others, the more likely they will help and protect you when needed.
Khorib wrote:
I think the most common misconception of religion and even Jesus or Moses' 10 Commandments... is that they did NOT invent morality. Not killing each other was “law” long before these religions were around, simply because if we are to prosper as a race and a pack/tribe/society, we cannot be killing ourselves. It’s called “Social Law”, and it naturally instills the “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” mentality, and encourages us to help each other. The more you help others, the more likely they will help and protect you when needed.
not quite sure what you mean here...
I will acknowledge you up to a certain point though as man does have an inner sense and subconciously knows what he needs.....But
How do you explain something as unjustified as slavery, which is just as bad as murder and killing? Social Law means whit when it comes to survival...as history has proved all to often. it only works as when you have imposed enougth authority, or in a nutshell when there is peace/absence of war...As for the Law, simply put, all nations work on the basis of the 10 commandments alone, as nobody likes liars, thieves, and we (used to )frown on adultury etc... actually that presents a point..as time has gone by it could be said that man response to the 10 cc has waned where they are almost all void. Ye man would still clings to some in a vain attempt to justify himself, whilst failing all the others.....never realising that to break one is to break all at the same time.....
Khorib wrote:
I think the most common misconception of religion and even Jesus or Moses' 10 Commandments... is that they did NOT invent morality. Not killing each other was “law” long before these religions were around, simply because if we are to prosper as a race and a pack/tribe/society, we cannot be killing ourselves. It’s called “Social Law”, and it naturally instills the “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” mentality, and encourages us to help each other. The more you help others, the more likely they will help and protect you when needed.
not quite sure what you mean here...
I will acknowledge you up to a certain point though as man does have an inner sense and subconciously knows what he needs.....But
How do you explain something as unjustified as slavery, which is just as bad as murder and killing? Social Law means whit when it comes to survival...as history has proved all to often. it only works as when you have imposed enougth authority, or in a nutshell when there is peace/absence of war...As for the Law, simply put, all nations work on the basis of the 10 commandments alone, as nobody likes liars, thieves, and we (used to )frown on adultury etc... actually that presents a point..as time has gone by it could be said that man response to the 10 cc has waned where they are almost all void. Ye man would still clings to some in a vain attempt to justify himself, whilst failing all the others.....never realising that to break one is to break all at the same time.....
I put “law” in quotations because I meant it as “Social Law”. Which I stated. And I’m referring to large tribes to small societies, only reminiscent to what we define as law in today’s world.
As for the 10 commandments... they are entirely unneeded. It can be summed up into a single sufficient phrase “Do to others what you would want done to you” which is the Golden Rule. Which is parallel with “if you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours”. Even though Jesus supposedly said the former phrase, he didn’t invent that one either. That one actually dates back to Babylon.
Don’t forget about the Asian civilizations either, for they have been untouched by western ideals until recently, and they still developed similarly in their idea of laws that make a society healthy.
As for slavery, that is how you make use of your enemies. It is a natural hierarchy, shown in wolves, gorillas, etc... It is not uncommon for a member to be “the bitch”. But when you increase the size of the pack to something of a large tribe, and you can organize, and safely keep prisoners in your custody, you then get slaves. Its cheap labor in exchange for their lives. I don’t see where you are having problems understanding.
your justification of slavery, relegating it to animal behaviour, indicates an impersonal logic/ and not so many experiences toward to the suffering of the world in genenral.....
do you lie? do you like to lie? do you steal, do you kill, do you commit adultury,.....if you dont like to do these things its because their is a Law telling you these things are wrong to do..But since no human individual or group could be so impartial or unbiased, where did it come from? which person first recognised a untruth for lie and said so, or that it is wrong to kill?....heck, why is all humanity constrained by it to a certain point by this thing..they dont have too but then human experience tells us that without this safeguard, chaos happens..see if you live without it for a few days. I have little to say to your “golden rule” except perhaps there are atheists in the world who practice it buy why do they do it? If reason dictates the life of an atheist, then reason must also ask, “Why should I behave morally when no one is observing me, when I can obtain more reward by acting immorally
The golden rule cannot be truly practiced, it can only be taught...Likewise, this golden rule comes from knowing from your own experience the difference between suffering and happiness, and so acting with compassion towards others at all times.
Watchman wrote:
your justification of slavery, relegating it to animal behaviour, indicates an impersonal logic/ and not so many experiences toward to the suffering of the world in genenral.....
do you lie? do you like to lie? do you steal, do you kill, do you commit adultury,.....if you dont like to do these things its because their is a Law telling you these things are wrong to do..But since no human individual or group could be so impartial or unbiased, where did it come from? which person first recognised a untruth for lie and said so, or that it is wrong to kill?....heck, why is all humanity constrained by it to a certain point by this thing..they dont have too but then human experience tells us that without this safeguard, chaos happens..see if you live without it for a few days. I have little to say to your “golden rule” except perhaps there are atheists in the world who practice it buy why do they do it? If reason dictates the life of an atheist, then reason must also ask, “Why should I behave morally when no one is observing me, when I can obtain more reward by acting immorally
The reason it develops is because it is how we best survive. We protect each other for our own safety... that is was a “pack/tribe” is, and that is how it comes about. If we were out alone by ourselves in the wilderness, we’d end up being eaten, or starving. We join together to keep these things from happening. If we work together , we can gather and bring in exponentially more food, and if there is a threat, it is less likely to attack when we are many. The “social law” I was referring to comes about as an unspoken pact that we will watch out for each other to better our chances of survival.
That means we shouldn’t kill each other, because that would weaken our pack/tribe by lessening our numbers.
Lying: Now the thing about lying, is that it is a sign of intelligence in young children. The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are. This is because is it a way around the consequences of an action that wasn’t witnessed. “I didn’t do it” attempts deflect the blame off of yourself. A reason I can think of for this being a bad thing, is it can cause anger between people, causing feuds and possibly violence, since no one likes being lied to. And lying makes it harder to find the person that “stole” from us, or the person that killed someone. To the pack, not being able to find this thief or murderer is a very bad thing, since he/she will probably continue to hurt the tribe from the inside.
Watchman wrote:
The golden rule cannot be truly practiced, it can only be taught...Likewise, this golden rule comes from knowing from your own experience the difference between suffering and happiness, and so acting with compassion towards others at all times.
you learn the difference between helping and hurting very early in life, like before the age of 10. However, it does usually take people much longer to realize the differences and long term consequences of each.
Watchman wrote:
your justification of slavery, relegating it to animal behaviour, indicates an impersonal logic/ and not so many experiences toward to the suffering of the world in genenral.....
do you lie? do you like to lie? do you steal, do you kill, do you commit adultury,.....if you dont like to do these things its because their is a Law telling you these things are wrong to do..But since no human individual or group could be so impartial or unbiased, where did it come from? which person first recognised a untruth for lie and said so, or that it is wrong to kill?....heck, why is all humanity constrained by it to a certain point by this thing..they dont have too but then human experience tells us that without this safeguard, chaos happens..see if you live without it for a few days. I have little to say to your “golden rule” except perhaps there are atheists in the world who practice it buy why do they do it? If reason dictates the life of an atheist, then reason must also ask, “Why should I behave morally when no one is observing me, when I can obtain more reward by acting immorally
The reason it develops is because it is how we best survive. We protect each other for our own safety... that is was a “pack/tribe” is, and that is how it comes about. If we were out alone by ourselves in the wilderness, we’d end up being eaten, or starving. We join together to keep these things from happening. If we work together , we can gather and bring in exponentially more food, and if there is a threat, it is less likely to attack when we are many. The “social law” I was referring to comes about as an unspoken pact that we will watch out for each other to better our chances of survival.
That means we shouldn’t kill each other, because that would weaken our pack/tribe by lessening our numbers.
Lying: Now the thing about lying, is that it is a sign of intelligence in young children. The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are. This is because is it a way around the consequences of an action that wasn’t witnessed. “I didn’t do it” attempts deflect the blame off of yourself. A reason I can think of for this being a bad thing, is it can cause anger between people, causing feuds and possibly violence. Since no one likes being lied to. And lying makes it harder to find the person that “stole” from us, or the person that killed someone. To the pack, not being able to find this thief or murderer is a very bad thing, since he/she will probably continue to hurt the tribe from the inside.
what the ?...........question, do you believe what you are posting/.......
Watchman wrote:
your justification of slavery, relegating it to animal behaviour, indicates an impersonal logic/ and not so many experiences toward to the suffering of the world in genenral.....
do you lie? do you like to lie? do you steal, do you kill, do you commit adultury,.....if you dont like to do these things its because their is a Law telling you these things are wrong to do..But since no human individual or group could be so impartial or unbiased, where did it come from? which person first recognised a untruth for lie and said so, or that it is wrong to kill?....heck, why is all humanity constrained by it to a certain point by this thing..they dont have too but then human experience tells us that without this safeguard, chaos happens..see if you live without it for a few days. I have little to say to your “golden rule” except perhaps there are atheists in the world who practice it buy why do they do it? If reason dictates the life of an atheist, then reason must also ask, “Why should I behave morally when no one is observing me, when I can obtain more reward by acting immorally
Lying: Now the thing about lying, is that it is a sign of intelligence in young children. The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are.
This is because is it a way around the consequences of an action that wasn’t witnessed. “I didn’t do it” attempts deflect the blame off of yourself. A reason I can think of for this being a bad thing, is it can cause anger between people, causing feuds and possibly violence. Since no one likes being lied to. And lying makes it harder to find the person that “stole” from us, or the person that killed someone. To the pack, not being able to find this thief or murderer is a very bad thing, since he/she will probably continue to hurt the tribe from the inside.
this whole post is void of something......its like you’re presenting something and trying to believe it at the same time..... children lying is a sign of their intelligence....WHAT?.....The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are.
.........FALSE....no-one, including some of the warped folks on this site will accept that...i can just imagine you presenting that arguement too all and getting owned....of course some will choose to accept your point....
Watchman wrote:
your justification of slavery, relegating it to animal behaviour, indicates an impersonal logic/ and not so many experiences toward to the suffering of the world in genenral.....
do you lie? do you like to lie? do you steal, do you kill, do you commit adultury,.....if you dont like to do these things its because their is a Law telling you these things are wrong to do..But since no human individual or group could be so impartial or unbiased, where did it come from? which person first recognised a untruth for lie and said so, or that it is wrong to kill?....heck, why is all humanity constrained by it to a certain point by this thing..they dont have too but then human experience tells us that without this safeguard, chaos happens..see if you live without it for a few days. I have little to say to your “golden rule” except perhaps there are atheists in the world who practice it buy why do they do it? If reason dictates the life of an atheist, then reason must also ask, “Why should I behave morally when no one is observing me, when I can obtain more reward by acting immorally
Lying: Now the thing about lying, is that it is a sign of intelligence in young children. The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are.
This is because is it a way around the consequences of an action that wasn’t witnessed. “I didn’t do it” attempts deflect the blame off of yourself. A reason I can think of for this being a bad thing, is it can cause anger between people, causing feuds and possibly violence. Since no one likes being lied to. And lying makes it harder to find the person that “stole” from us, or the person that killed someone. To the pack, not being able to find this thief or murderer is a very bad thing, since he/she will probably continue to hurt the tribe from the inside.
this whole post is void of something......its like you’re presenting something and trying to believe it at the same time..... children lying is a sign of their intelligence....WHAT?.....The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are.
.........FALSE....no-one, including some of the warped folks on this site will accept that...i can just imagine you presenting that arguement too all and getting owned....of course some will choose to accept your point....
Well, since you asked for it, here is my evidence on children and lying...
http://nymag.com/news/features/43893/
“It starts very young. Indeed, bright kids—those who do better on other academic indicators—are able to start lying at 2 or 3. “Lying is related to intelligence,” explains Dr. Victoria Talwar, an assistant professor at Montreal’s McGill University and a leading expert on children’s lying behavior.
Although we think of truthfulness as a young child’s paramount virtue, it turns out that lying is the more advanced skill. A child who is going to lie must recognize the truth, intellectually conceive of an alternate reality, and be able to convincingly sell that new reality to someone else. Therefore, lying demands both advanced cognitive development and social skills that honesty simply doesn’t require. “It’s a developmental milestone,” Talwar has concluded."
There you have it, sir. I believe you just got served. And anyone else on this site may feel free to jump in on this subject and defend your point, but I doubt there will be many... if any.
Watchman wrote:
your justification of slavery, relegating it to animal behaviour, indicates an impersonal logic/ and not so many experiences toward to the suffering of the world in genenral.....
do you lie? do you like to lie? do you steal, do you kill, do you commit adultury,.....if you dont like to do these things its because their is a Law telling you these things are wrong to do..But since no human individual or group could be so impartial or unbiased, where did it come from? which person first recognised a untruth for lie and said so, or that it is wrong to kill?....heck, why is all humanity constrained by it to a certain point by this thing..they dont have too but then human experience tells us that without this safeguard, chaos happens..see if you live without it for a few days. I have little to say to your “golden rule” except perhaps there are atheists in the world who practice it buy why do they do it? If reason dictates the life of an atheist, then reason must also ask, “Why should I behave morally when no one is observing me, when I can obtain more reward by acting immorally
Lying: Now the thing about lying, is that it is a sign of intelligence in young children. The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are.
This is because is it a way around the consequences of an action that wasn’t witnessed. “I didn’t do it” attempts deflect the blame off of yourself. A reason I can think of for this being a bad thing, is it can cause anger between people, causing feuds and possibly violence. Since no one likes being lied to. And lying makes it harder to find the person that “stole” from us, or the person that killed someone. To the pack, not being able to find this thief or murderer is a very bad thing, since he/she will probably continue to hurt the tribe from the inside.
this whole post is void of something......its like you’re presenting something and trying to believe it at the same time..... children lying is a sign of their intelligence....WHAT?.....The earlier they learn to lie (and I mean learn on their own) the smarter they generally are.
.........FALSE....no-one, including some of the warped folks on this site will accept that...i can just imagine you presenting that arguement too all and getting owned....of course some will choose to accept your point....
Well, since you asked for it, here is my evidence on children and lying...
http://nymag.com/news/features/43893/
“It starts very young. Indeed, bright kids—those who do better on other academic indicators—are able to start lying at 2 or 3. “Lying is related to intelligence,” explains Dr. Victoria Talwar, an assistant professor at Montreal’s McGill University and a leading expert on children’s lying behavior.
Although we think of truthfulness as a young child’s paramount virtue, it turns out that lying is the more advanced skill. A child who is going to lie must recognize the truth, intellectually conceive of an alternate reality, and be able to convincingly sell that new reality to someone else. Therefore, lying demands both advanced cognitive development and social skills that honesty simply doesn’t require. “It’s a developmental milestone,” Talwar has concluded."
There you have it, sir. I believe you just got served. And anyone else on this site may feel free to jump in on this subject and defend your point, but I doubt there will be many... if any.
your whole arguement is full of holes....did I actuallly say this “of course some will choose to accept your point”....well, there goes my prediction ratings....hey darth muppet, why dont you go play with your vs forum again. Your little clique is irksome. If you have an arguement based on the discussion at hand than post...dont start posting because your friend copied and pasted something that he read...That doesnt make it true..Neither is what I say, but at least i am willing to debate it. And so is he for that matter. Maybe you dont like my post
or some other reason....grow up..
...at least your friend had somethng of a arguement when we began......“good day to me sir”....you speak as if you’ve been proved right......is that the aim of this? ANYWAYS you aint
Watchman wrote:
your whole arguement is full of holes....did I actuallly say this “of course some will choose to accept your point”....well, there goes my prediction ratings....hey darth muppet, why dont you go play with your vs forum again. Your little clique is irksome. If you have an arguement based on the discussion at hand than post...dont start posting because your friend copied and pasted something that he read...That doesnt make it true..Neither is what I say, but at least i am willing to debate it. And so is he for that matter. Maybe you dont like my post
or some other reason....grow up..
...at least your friend had somethng of a arguement when we began......“good day to me sir”....you speak as if you’ve been proved right......is that the aim of this? ANYWAYS you aint
Hey Pedowatch, why don’t you tell me why Krillin beats Superman? Or why Gogeta beats Superman?
Watchman wrote:
your whole arguement is full of holes....did I actuallly say this “of course some will choose to accept your point”....well, there goes my prediction ratings....hey darth muppet, why dont you go play with your vs forum again. Your little clique is irksome. If you have an arguement based on the discussion at hand than post...dont start posting because your friend copied and pasted something that he read...That doesnt make it true..Neither is what I say, but at least i am willing to debate it. And so is he for that matter. Maybe you dont like my post
or some other reason....grow up..
...at least your friend had somethng of a arguement when we began......“good day to me sir”....you speak as if you’ve been proved right......is that the aim of this? ANYWAYS you aint
Hey Pedowatch, why don’t you tell me why Krillin beats Superman? Or why Gogeta beats Superman?
Watchman wrote:
your whole arguement is full of holes....did I actuallly say this “of course some will choose to accept your point”....well, there goes my prediction ratings....hey darth muppet, why dont you go play with your vs forum again. Your little clique is irksome. If you have an arguement based on the discussion at hand than post...dont start posting because your friend copied and pasted something that he read...That doesnt make it true..Neither is what I say, but at least i am willing to debate it. And so is he for that matter. Maybe you dont like my post
or some other reason....grow up..
...at least your friend had somethng of a arguement when we began......“good day to me sir”....you speak as if you’ve been proved right......is that the aim of this? ANYWAYS you aint
Hey Pedowatch, why don’t you tell me why Krillin beats Superman? Or why Gogeta beats Superman?
truly you speak foolish things. Begone
That’s what I thought. You don’t have an answer. haha
Watchman wrote:
your whole arguement is full of holes....did I actuallly say this “of course some will choose to accept your point”....well, there goes my prediction ratings....hey darth muppet, why dont you go play with your vs forum again. Your little clique is irksome. If you have an arguement based on the discussion at hand than post...dont start posting because your friend copied and pasted something that he read...That doesnt make it true..Neither is what I say, but at least i am willing to debate it. And so is he for that matter. Maybe you dont like my post
or some other reason....grow up..
...at least your friend had somethng of a arguement when we began......“good day to me sir”....you speak as if you’ve been proved right......is that the aim of this? ANYWAYS you aint
Please point out the holes in this study. And the reason I had a “rest my case” attitude is because you were so very sure that I would have to be insane to say such a thing, that children who lie at an early age are generally more intelligent.
*EDIT* If I were you, I would read the whole article about the study in the link I posted before you start your rebuttal... for both our sakes
Watchman got owned. One thing WM get rid of your " I am above you and your stupid for believing differantly than me” attitude. Anyway post the holes in the study or move on.
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