But Cid, I just want to clarify that you do have the freedoms to pray and have the 10 commandments, just not on government run organizations. America specifically defines what freedom is. Is this case it would say that you would have the freedom to pray on your own time in your own house, which you do, but if you look at the past our freedoms are continually getting more strict.
ramunematt wrote:
Actually, you don’t have those rights because it goes against separation of church and state.
America’s founding principal is freedom. If the constitution steps on that right, then it contradicts what Americans have as a right.
The Courtroom and Schools may be public ran places, but that doesn’t get the government the right to take away the freedom that we’re guaranteed by our constitution.
Yeah, coincidentally I made a reply to this and posted it before I read your post, but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to add just one more thing. You, among millions of other Americans, don’t know restricted our freedoms really are. Have you ever watched “Penn and Teller: Bullshit!"? It’s an Emmy nominated show where Penn and Teller take a skeptical look on certain things. I think one of them is our “freedoms”. You should look for it, you’lle be surprised how limited our freedoms really are.
ramunematt wrote:
Actually, you don’t have those rights because it goes against separation of church and state.
America’s founding principal is freedom. If the constitution steps on that right, then it contradicts what Americans have as a right.
The Courtroom and Schools may be public ran places, but that doesn’t get the government the right to take away the freedom that we’re guaranteed by our constitution.
Separation of church and state.
Praying=church
School=state
ten commandments=church
courtrooms=state
How is following a principal this country was founded on unconstituitional? Which begs the question, Why do you have to physically get down on your knees and pray? Couldnt you just kinda do one in your mind when you arent doing anything?
Which also raises the question, why do we need the 10 commandments in the courtroom? Perjury, murder, and theft are all illegal.....
ramunematt wrote:
There people go again assuming I’m talking about EVERY Christian. I hold nothing personal against you unless you’ve tried to force-feed your beliefs on me or our country.
by force feed do u mean preching/converting?
Preaching, converting (especially at 8:00 in the morning), subversion of science in favor of religion and trying to change out Constitution. Oh, and lets not forget the years of attempted mind control and brainwashing.
i was gonna say, why not debate with people who try and preach to/convert you, but i realize it may not be a good idea, so nvm....
Praying in schools does not infringe on other students' rights, nor does it affect any serious issues.
People have the freedom of religion and the freedom to express their religion, so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.
A guy can go into a school dressed in golden crosses and an “I Love Jesus” shirt carrying a bible in one hand and it is well within his right to do so. However, prayer in schools is not to be something the schools schedule. But anyone can pray in school. That’s their freedom.
As for “under god”. Get over it. It’s two words. Honestly, no one even pays attention when they say the pledge anyway. If you want to remove all signs of religion from schools and stuff, you’d also have to give up your christmas and easter vacations. Care to fight to have those removed? Of course not. Those are too convenient for you.
Church should be seperated from state. No place in the world should be a theocracy.
ramunematt wrote:
Okay, you wanna know why some atheists on these forums seem bitter to religious people? I’ll tell you why. All you have to do is look not on these forums, but history. Our country. Look at all the hate there is towards atheists right now. We are the least trusted and most hated minority in America, we have under God in our pledge of allegiance for what is supposed to be a secular country, most of us can’t even say that were atheists in public without people harassing us. It’s not people and their beliefs that I hate, just the way they act on it. When people try to subvert science for Creationism, that is not okay for me. When I have multiple Evangelicals knocking on my door at 8:00 in the morning trying to convert me, that is not ok. When people become so ignorant that they think America is founded as a Christian nation, that is not ok. I could go on and on but I think you get my point. You can believe whatever the fuck you want because I really don’t give a shit if you believe you were made from a dirtman and a woman’s rib or that god had a son to sacrificed himself to himself. Just don’t try to impose your beliefs on me.
Also, where did you get the idea that atheists blame everything on religion? I don’t think I’ve met one atheist in my entire life who blames EVERYTHING on religion.
Nevertheless, not everyone lives in America. Seriously, blaming Theists for Atheists being treated badly a few hundred years ago is like sending a kid to jail for a crime his grandfather commited before he was even born.
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Last edited 17 Jan 2008 11:37 pm by Sean of the Living
Atresac wrote:
Praying in schools does not infringe on other students' rights, nor does it affect any serious issues.
People have the freedom of religion and the freedom to express their religion, so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.
A guy can go into a school dressed in golden crosses and an “I Love Jesus” shirt carrying a bible in one hand and it is well within his right to do so. However, prayer in schools is not to be something the schools schedule. But anyone can pray in school. That’s their freedom.
As for “under god”. Get over it. It’s two words. Honestly, no one even pays attention when they say the pledge anyway. If you want to remove all signs of religion from schools and stuff, you’d also have to give up your christmas and easter vacations. Care to fight to have those removed? Of course not. Those are too convenient for you.
I must commit to the hell that is the lunar month of Ramadan. I can’t eat, drink or have any sexual activity during the daylight hours for 28 days.
If my parents tell me to do something, I cannot even complain, let alone disobey unless it conflicts with Allah’s law.
When I’m an adult I’ll have to donate 2.5% of my income to charity as well as spend thousands of dollars making a pilgrimage to Mecca and I pray 5 times a day.
I’ll probably have to learn Arabic as I get older too.
Not only this, but you get a bunch of intolerant Atheist assholes teasing you and throwing shit on you and in general making your social life a hell.
I think I’ve earnt my right to be a Theist.
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Last edited 17 Jan 2008 11:58 pm by Sean of the Living
Sean of the Living wrote:
I have strict dietary guidelines.
I can’t have sex until I get married.
I can NEVER do any recreational drugs.
I must commit to the hell that is the lunar month of Ramadan. I can’t eat, drink or have any sexual activity during the daylight hours for 28 days.
If my parents tell me to do something, I cannot even complain, let alone disobey unless it conflicts with Allah’s law.
When I’m an adult I’ll have to donate 2.5% of my income to charity as well as spend thousands of dollars making a pilgrimage to Mecca and I pray 5 times a day.
I’ll probably have to learn Arabic as I get older too.
Not only this, but you get a bunch of intolerant Atheist assholes teasing you and throwing shit on you and in general making your social life a hell.
Sean of the Living wrote:
I have strict dietary guidelines.
I can’t have sex until I get married.
I can NEVER do any recreational drugs.
I must commit to the hell that is the lunar month of Ramadan. I can’t eat, drink or have any sexual activity during the daylight hours for 28 days.
If my parents tell me to do something, I cannot even complain, let alone disobey unless it conflicts with Allah’s law.
When I’m an adult I’ll have to donate 2.5% of my income to charity as well as spend thousands of dollars making a pilgrimage to Mecca and I pray 5 times a day.
I’ll probably have to learn Arabic as I get older too.
Not only this, but you get a bunch of intolerant Atheist assholes teasing you and throwing shit on you and in general making your social life a hell.
I think I’ve earnt my right to be a Theist.
Nice.
You show those mean athiests, Sean.
Thank you.
But they’re not all mean. I’m just pissed with the ones who say they have a hard time when they don’t even have to commit to any serious beliefs.
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Last edited 18 Jan 2008 12:01 am by Sean of the Living
Sean of the Living wrote:
I have strict dietary guidelines.
I can’t have sex until I get married.
I can NEVER do any recreational drugs.
I must commit to the hell that is the lunar month of Ramadan. I can’t eat, drink or have any sexual activity during the daylight hours for 28 days.
If my parents tell me to do something, I cannot even complain, let alone disobey unless it conflicts with Allah’s law.
When I’m an adult I’ll have to donate 2.5% of my income to charity as well as spend thousands of dollars making a pilgrimage to Mecca and I pray 5 times a day.
I’ll probably have to learn Arabic as I get older too.
Not only this, but you get a bunch of intolerant Atheist assholes teasing you and throwing shit on you and in general making your social life a hell.
I think I’ve earnt my right to be a Theist.
Nice.
You show those mean athiests, Sean.
Thank you.
But they’re not all mean. I’m just pissed with the ones who say they have a hard time when they don’t even have to commit to any serious beliefs.
Yeah, they just go with it. No rules for them. Oh, but it’s a big problem if they say “under god”!
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