Mystic gohan was much stronger than ssj3 goku, that we know for sure, the rest beyond that is just hypothetical calcualations. Looking at power levels that were randomly given to the characters doesn’t do much good. Here is what we know. Superbuu= kid buu + fat buu, uub after years of training with goku is more powerful than kid buu. Majuub = mr.buu (fat buu)+ uub. So Majuub is more powerful than super buu, Probably somewhere near Gotenks Buus power, maybe slightly less. Majuub got owned by 3rd level Baby Vegeta, Baby Vegeta is somewhere Between gotenks Buu and gohan buu. Baby Vegeta in order to keep up with SSJ4 Goku turns into an Oozaru, which increases his strength by 10 times. Goku is able to beat Baby Vegeta. Even in Mystic Gohan is stronger than Baby Vegeta 3rd form, he would be barely stronger than him. Say 1.2-1.4 times his power, on the other hand ssj4 goku is 10 times his power. So really it isn’t that close. Gokus power level jumped through the roof in GT. In his base level goku could probably beat kid buu, seeing as he played around with cell and freiza at the same time, when both of them stated that their powerlevels where both much higher than before. I know that Mystic Gohan could also beat kid buu easily. So Mystic Gohan is stronger than Base Goku GT, probably stronger than SSJ Goku, but SSJ2 and up I would give it to goku. Plus goku, got even stronger after the Baby fight, and was much stronger when he fought Omega Shenron. Besides if Elder Kai though mystic was a better powerup than SSJ4 he would have helped goku become mystic goku and not SSJ4 goku, why not? it never says that goku doesn’t have tons of unlocked potential.
Uub was pathetic compared with Kid Buu if you remember the tornament were Goku owned him in like his base form without need of SSJ so he couldent fly use blast’s regen or have the endless energy Kid Buu seemed to have fighting SSJ3 Goku twice SSJ2 Vegeta 3 time’s and a weakened (lost his evil) Fat Buu off.
so give him the ten year’s of training he had with Goku he may and this is a big MAY have closed the gap between himself and Kid Buu (but if you would recall Kid Buu wasnt as powerful as Super Buu) plus without that regen of near infanate energy Kid Buu still toast’s Uub outright agreed?
Baby couldent even beat a weaker Goten who had not trained infact Gohan Trunk’s near enough all the fighter’s who lend their strenth to Baby never trained for like 10yr’s and Goku was turned into a child who could stay in SSJ3 for like 10 seconds if that, so everyone in GT was weaker considerably.
Im not saying Uub was completely weak, but just look at the fight against Super Seventeen none of the Z Fighter’s could even budge him includeing Uub so he was on par with the Z Fighter’s if anything at this point and that’s includeing the fact he was Majuub now lol, Gohan even undermine’s Goten Trunk’s and Uub whwn they save him against General Lock saying he should think about retireing if he needed to be saved by them (note Gohan hasnt gone SSJ).
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“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
Ok, first off the uub who face goku in the tournament had no training, and had never faced any strong opponent. We have to remember that even so this Uub hit blow for blow with goku. This isn’t the same base goku during the Buu saga. This goku had been training continuously (because that is what goku does) for years after his kid buu fight. This goku is probably somewhere around 1.5 times stronger than goku in the kid buu fight. Speculation, but it makes sense, looking at how goku’s power usually increases over the years. If anything this calculation is very conservative. Then after 10 years of training with Uub. Goku now is probably somewhere around 3 times stronger than base goku during kid buu fight. Example, look at how he played around with Super Perfect Cell and Frieza, who had both claimed to have become much stronger. So by this time Base Goku even in Chibi form is about as strong as SSJ2 Goku Buu Saga. Now lets talk about Uub vs kid Buu. Sure kid buu has a larger variety of powers, like regeneration. But this kid Buu was on par with SSJ3 Goku DBZ. On the other hand, SSJ3 Chibi Goku GT who is about 2-3times stronger than SSJ3 goku DBZ, was on par with Bebe Vegeta form one. We can not be sure about this because he couldn’t maintain this form, but we will just say that he is. So Bebe Vegeta form one is about 2-3 times as strong as Kid Buu. Uub at this time was stronger than this Form of Bebi Vegeta. We know this because he held his own for a short while vs form 3 bebe vegeta, who was at this point at least twice as strong than his powerlevel at form one. So this Form of Bebi Vegeta is about 4-5 times stronger than kid Buu. So Uub vs Bebe form 3 is about 2 times stronger than kid buu, conservatively speaking. Now mr. buu who fuses with uub is the same buu who was pulled out of Super Buu. So when they fuse back together they should be stronger than super buu, because as shown uub by this time is much stronger than kid buu. The comment about the super 17 fight makes little sense. If you use that to prove that Majuub was at the same level as goten and trunks or even gohan. They had done very little training, while on the other hand Uub had been in constant That is like saying, During the cell games Piccolo and Yamcha had the same power level, because they were both swatted away like they were nothing by SP Cell. You can make these comparisons when they are fighting against an opponent that was far superior to any of them. As we know Piccolo at that point at the Cell Games was probably 20 times stronger than Yamcha, but he was blown away by cell’s ki just as easily as yamcha was. Back to the argument. If we say generously that Mystic Gohan was 10 times as strong as SSJ3 Goku DBZ or kid buu, which I think is way overstating his power, he was probably closer to 6-7 times stronger at the very most, but either way. Form 3 Bebi Vegeta was 4 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, still weaker than Mystic Gohan, so I agree with you, Mystic Gohan could have beat Bebi Vegeta Form 3, but then when he goes 0zaru. Even if he wasn’t at 100% full power, which he wasn’t because he already went a round with SSJ4 Goku, so lets just say that before he transformed he was 2 times as strong as kid buu and ssj3 goku DBZ, after the transformation he would have been 20 times the strength of kid buu and 2 times the strength of Mystic Gohan. On the other hand SSJ4 goku was able to match him blow for blow and eventually beat him. Now this was the first time Goku went SSJ4. When he healed from this fight he became stronger, and the SSJ4 Goku who fought against Super 17 was stronger than the one who fought Bebi. Likewise the ssj4 goku who fought syn shenron and omega shenron was much stronger than the one who fought super 17. So SSJ 4 goku vs Bebi is about 2 times the power of Mystic Gohan, the one who fights Omega Shenron is probably closer to 3 times stronger than mystic Gohan. This is all base on the fact that Goku in GT was stronger than Goku in DBZ, even when he was turned into a child, it never states that he became weaker, only that he couldn’t maintain ssj3 form. So using this basis we can see that SSJ4 was stronger than Mystic Gohan. Like I stated before other wise the elder kai would have helped Goku become mystic Goku and not SSJ4 Goku.
Yes, even before that when Goku and Vegeta fought they were already throwing Planet destroying blasts. The reason why the earth wasn’t destroyed is because of Ki Control. You can mean for a blast to destroy a planet, and you can mean for it to hit an enemy. Just because later on in DBZ every blast doesn’t doesn’t destroy the earth, doesn’t mean that the blasts are weaker than Frieza’s blast, just that the blast wasn’t intended to destroy the earth. Buu, could have done much more than just destroy the earth, but he didn’t want to, because destorying the solar system or galaxy served him no extra purpose.
Basically anybody with a power level above 10,000 or so can destroy a planet, it may be less than that, seeing as though Roshi could destroy the moon with a power level of only 139. Destroying an earth size planet would require about 50 times that power. So around 7000.
This fail’s Babi alone was weaker than any of the Saiyan’s (Goten,Trunk’s,Gohan,Vegeta) each could have swatted him out of existence and they had done little to no training for almost 10yr’s now when Bebi took over Vegeta (who was ageing terribly Super 17 said he had grown weaker due to this) he would be mabe close to Majin Vegeta at best.
Chebi Goku was alot weaker than Goku from Z he couldent even hold SSJ3 for more than 10 second’s in that small frame, Goku Buu Saga had trained 7yr’s straight in otherworld with the best training that could be provided and the most intence (plus haveing a dead body made him more durable to maintain SSJ3) now come on Goku Z in SSJ2 would dominate Cell and Freiza just like Pikkon did i dare say he would do it in SSJ lol.
Final error here is Uub he was weak compared with Kid Buu and had to train for ten year’s to close that power gap witch he did minus unlimited power,regen and liquid form so mergeing with Fat Buu only closed the gap between he and Super Buu witch Mystic Gohan topple’s flawlessly
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“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
Of Course Uub was weak at the tournament. That is like saying Gohan was weak when they fought Nappa. He had never really fought an opponent and had never trained with anybody worth training. But like Gohan he had tons of potential seeing as though he was kid buu reborn.In DBZ people start to get a lot stronger when they fight and train against people with greater power than themself. This Proof still only shows that SuperBuu and Form 3 Bebi Vegeta were close in power. Stating that Majuub was close in power but still below SuperBuu. As in the same way Majuub was still inferior to form 3 bebi vegeta. So let’s say that for arguments sake Bebi Vegeta Form 3= SuperBoo (or atleast the power difference would be minimal). Mystic Gohan is only roughly 2.5-3 times stronger than SuperBoo and Bebi Vegeta Form 3. While SSJ4 Goku is 10 times stronger, that is why he could fight with the Ozaru for Bebi.
Secondly Base Goku in Z, could not have beaten Cell and Frieza. Especially not the cell and Frieza who had supposedly gotten a lot stronger. SPC during Z was almost as strong as a low end SSJ2, now that he stated he was stronger. Cell has saiyan blood in him, he trains and gets stronger. So either way, goku form for form is stronger in GT than in Z.
SSJ1 and SSJ2 Goku is stronger in GT than in Z. The only weakness for SSJ3 Goku in GT is he can’t hold in for more than a minute. But no where does Goku state he lost power. Gohan and Goten seemed to be very impressed when he turned SSJ3, if he would have lost power it would have been stated.
A Dbz character only loses power if they stop training which Goku did not. That is like saying Goku between the Cell and Buu Saga lost the training he did in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Just because the location and style of training change doesn’t mean that all previous training has been lost. Goku Base form, both adult and chibi for in GT are both stronger than the Z counterpart. Because Base Goku could not beat Cell, as you state, you doubt that even SSJ1 could do it. Plus I really don’t think Pikkon could have beat SP Cell. He just got one good hit and knocked him down.
Another thing, it never says anywhere in GT that Vegeta had stopped training. For Goten, Gohan and Trunks yes it does. I don’t know where you would get that Bebi Vegeta was equal to Majin Vegeta. Again Base Goku GT>SP Cell and Frieza. SSJ2 Form Goku<Majin Vegeta. And I don’t want to hear about him not being able to sustain SSJ2 because that was only ssj3. I am not sure how much stronger a SSJ2 is than that saiyan’s base form, but usually I would think it was a lot. SP Cell by this time, was closing the gap on where Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku were in the early Buu saga. So Majin Vegeta>SP Cell GT but not by that much if any. So you are telling me that Bebi Vegeta was only slightly stronger than Majin Vegeta who Goku could have beat in Base form, yet even in SSJ2 form Goku felt he could not beat him. that is why he tried to go SSJ3.
So here is the list
SSJ4GOku>Ozaru Bebi Vegeta>Mystic Gohan>Form 3 Bebi Vegeta> SuperBuu> Majuub> Form 2 Bebi Vegeta>Uub> chibi SSJ3 Goku “if he could sustain it”>Form 1 Bebi Vegeta> chibi SSJ2 Goku>SSJ3 Goku DBZ > chibi SSJ1 Goku> Kid buu> chibi Base Goku> Majin Vegeta> GT SP Cell.
Unless you can prove to me that SuperBoo was more than twice as strong as Form 3 Bebi Vegeta, you can’t prove that Mystic Gohan was stronger than SSJ4 Goku.
Sorry for the long posts, I get kind of carried away.
and vegeta wasn’t getting old. For Saiyans, Goku and Vegeta were just reaching their prime. Super 17 just says it to taunt vegeta. It is called playing mind games, even if your opponent has become stronger you don’t want to admit it to them.
You kinda waist your energy on long meaningless posting dude just keep to the point ok
Now the point here is to find out the differeance in power between SSJ4 and Mystic Gohan right so this is easy enough.
In GT let’s say Super 17 fight for argument’s sake watch the video i posted of the Z Fighter’s tackleing Super 17 first Vegeta attack’s then Majuub then Goten and Trunk’s together finaly Gohan with his Kamehameha wave try’s and fail’s now the point here is this,
If someone stronger than you attack’s an enemy and douse nothing to them why would you attempt the same feat right, well Vegeta did nothing to Super 17 so Majuub tried to witch he also douse nothing stateing “He’s unstopable”! (witch show’s Majuub tried) next Goten AND Trunk’s try together (witch make’s sence) still nothing then Gohan attempt’s to destroy him with a Kamehameha and Goten even belive’s him to be destroyed everyone is shocked to see that Gohan’s attack did nothing.
Now Gohan would not have attemted 17’s destruction if he dident think his attack was more powerful than the other’s (to note he was in base form and power’s up to SSJ with the other’s also to note they were all alot weaker than in Z), and earliar on in the show Gohan say’s it’s embarresing to be saved by Goten Trunk’s and Uub clearly showing that even tho weakened by ten year’s no training Gohan was superior to all three youngsters.
Vegeta was like 60 odd in GT dude that’s past prime mabe as 17 said Vegeta was getting old and his power was fadeing (we have no proof what he ment only he said Vegeta’s age had made him soft, also a reason he got weaker is Vegeta had accepted his place on earth and thrown away his pride makeing him softer in time’s of peace) we see him train but nothing on his Z training, Vegeta dident have the same drive he once had to be better than Goku so he accepted time’s of peace maintaining his power level rather than accending beyond it (hence no SSJ3).
Now that’s your debate reffuted my freind if Uub was on par with Goten and Trunk’s considered weaker than Gohan when ten year’s weaker then none of your argument stand’s and in the babi saga they were weaker than this.
So if Mystic Gohan was alot stronger than Gt Gohan he stand’s head over shoulder’s ubove the other GT Fighter’s like SSJ4 Goku douse.
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“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
Ok, lets forget about Uub, we won’t come to agreement because it is all speculation no proof, Although I still don’t think Gohan, Goten or Trunks could have given Bebi Vegeta a fight like Uub Did. But either way SSJ4 goku is stronger than mystic Gohan. And GT Goku is Stronger than DBZ Goku, proven in the Cell Frieza fight.
Since when did GT hold true on anything Z OR Akira Toriyama stated i ask Saiyan’s hair never changeing from birth (Vegeta) or the fact they completely forgot about Mystic Gohan it’s a total Glitch feild lol.
Anyway I proved Uub was on par with the other’s despite what you think Gohan Goten and Trunk’s could do, Majuub sure he was stronger than Trunk’s and Goten allout but give them SSJ and it almost balence’s out the playing feild (SSJ is time’s 50 strenth speed power) now Gohan already undermined Uub by saying it’s embarressing to have to be saved by them (meaning their noob’s) also Gohan would not have attempted that Kamehameha (in base form) if he did not truely belive his attack to be alot stronger than everyone else who had gone before him.
Now the fact Gohan can go SSJ from here timesing his power 50 fold more than surggest’s he is stronger or if not on par with Majuub, plus if you even watched the babi Saga properly you would notice Gohan wanted to take on Bebi Oozaruu with Goten and Trunk’s fused, this show’s he is far ubove Goten or Trunk’s either way and i seem to recall Trunk’s blasting Bebi Oozaru over when he was going to crush pan...so Babi’s power is in question considerably.
Vegeta ageing merged with Bebi conjoined with the weakened Saiyan’s Gohan Trunk’s Goten and Bra’s (lol) power and his host’s on earth amplified by Blutzwave’s do not equal Gotenk’s Buu (Super Buu (Fat + Evil Buu) Gotenk’s SSJ3 (Goten + Trunk’s SSJ3’s) and Piccolo the super Namek)
I mean Come on Super Buu merged with SSJ3 Gotenk’s (in their prime) with Piccolo more than surpasses Goku in SSJ4 and if so narrow’s the gap between Mystic Gohan and SSJ4 Goku?
Another way to see this sure Goku SSJ4 beat babi but Super 17 owned him and Chibi saved the day, and Omega absulutely owned him and Vegeta so the only showing of him winning is Bebi Oozaru think about it
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“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
Kyle Knight wrote:
Since when did GT hold true on anything Z OR Akira Toriyama stated i ask Saiyan’s hair never changeing from birth (Vegeta) or the fact they completely forgot about Mystic Gohan it’s a total Glitch feild lol.
Anyway I proved Uub was on par with the other’s despite what you think Gohan Goten and Trunk’s could do, Majuub sure he was stronger than Trunk’s and Goten allout but give them SSJ and it almost balence’s out the playing feild (SSJ is time’s 50 strenth speed power) now Gohan already undermined Uub by saying it’s embarressing to have to be saved by them (meaning their noob’s) also Gohan would not have attempted that Kamehameha (in base form) if he did not truely belive his attack to be alot stronger than everyone else who had gone before him.
Now the fact Gohan can go SSJ from here timesing his power 50 fold more than surggest’s he is stronger or if not on par with Majuub, plus if you even watched the babi Saga properly you would notice Gohan wanted to take on Bebi Oozaruu with Goten and Trunk’s fused, this show’s he is far ubove Goten or Trunk’s either way and i seem to recall Trunk’s blasting Bebi Oozaru over when he was going to crush pan...so Babi’s power is in question considerably.
Vegeta ageing merged with Bebi conjoined with the weakened Saiyan’s Gohan Trunk’s Goten and Bra’s (lol) power and his host’s on earth amplified by Blutzwave’s do not equal Gotenk’s Buu (Super Buu (Fat + Evil Buu) Gotenk’s SSJ3 (Goten + Trunk’s SSJ3’s) and Piccolo the super Namek)
I mean Come on Super Buu merged with SSJ3 Gotenk’s (in their prime) with Piccolo more than surpasses Goku in SSJ4 and if so narrow’s the gap between Mystic Gohan and SSJ4 Goku?
Another way to see this sure Goku SSJ4 beat babi but Super 17 owned him and Chibi saved the day, and Omega absulutely owned him and Vegeta so the only showing of him winning is Bebi Oozaru think about it
Not alway’s just it’s hard to say what is valid and what is not lol Omniblast was saying how thing’s work throughout Z Gt yet GT hasnt alway’s been to reliable
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“It is better to die on your feet like a man, than to live life on your knee’s like a fucking dog"
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