SA-X wrote:
So essentially you want to separate from the site. I understand your separatist attitude clearly. You don’t like guests so you want to move the entire social community off the site and fuck them with rules. If you want to leave, fine. Don’t try to bring my entire social community with you.
How you came to that conclusion I honestly do not know. Clearly you haven’t been reading throughout the entire topic, or you just haven’t been paying attention very well.
Branching off from the site to a more modernized version, technically, can cause no harm to the main site itself.
SA-X wrote:
Everyone’s claiming guests are the source of all the spamming and flaming on this site. Blame the guests. Sure, why not, they don’t actually visit the site regularly. You’ll never see them again. Perfect targets.
Actually, not everyone is saying that. And you’re making it out as if we suddenly hate guests. This goes well with what I said earlier. You clearly are not paying attention.
SA-X wrote:
The majority of this complaining is coming from the latest generation of noobs. An attitude comes to mind; Let’s just blame the people below me. Oh wait, wasn’t that generation the same that was complaining that the senior members looks down on the noobs?
Latest generation of noobs? Please evaluate what you mean by that.
Blaming the people below you is simply not the case here. GG merely proposed restricting or prohibiting guests. I myself disagree, but we all have different opinions on the matter.
It’s quite true a lot of trouble comes from the guests, as you said, it may be because they feel like they have to fight back because the members may not be guest friendly. This leads me to my next statement.
SA-X wrote:
No one’s ever considered the fact that it’s themselves to blame for guest immaturity. No one accepts a guest into the community as easily as before. Perhaps it’s those who make them feel unwelcome, and it makes guests feel that they have to fight to be accepted into the community.
If they want to be accepted, they only have to join. Guests tend to be spammers and above all, annoying. not to say all guests are like this, but many of them are.
SA-X wrote:
You people should realize that the majority of hits coming to this site are actually guests. Removing them wouldn’t result in what you desire; more members. Be guest friendly.
I agree with this honestly.
Perfect.
--- I by the power of Truth, while living, have conquered the Universe
Something is trembling tonight.
SA-X wrote:
No one’s ever considered the fact that it’s themselves to blame for guest immaturity. No one accepts a guest into the community as easily as before. Perhaps it’s those who make them feel unwelcome, and it makes guests feel that they have to fight to be accepted into the community.
You people should realize that the majority of hits coming to this site are actually guests. Removing them wouldn’t result in what you desire; more members. Be guest friendly.
That is exactly right, I have heard someone (I will not use names) say “he is just a guest and has no say on this site, he needs to be a member for me to respond to him” and that is almost like discrimination. You dont go onto a site just to register off the back, what if you dont like it? You need to feel welcome and check things out first, see what the site has to offer. If that is the kind of attitude that is floating around for guests then why would the guest want to stay and register, like SA-X said why should he/she have to fight to feel welcome?
SA-X wrote:
So essentially you want to separate from the site. I understand your separatist attitude clearly. You don’t like guests so you want to move the entire social community off the site and fuck them with rules. If you want to leave, fine. Don’t try to bring my entire social community with you.
Everyone’s claiming guests are the source of all the spamming and flaming on this site. Blame the guests. Sure, why not, they don’t actually visit the site regularly. You’ll never see them again. Perfect targets.
The majority of this complaining is coming from the latest generation of noobs. An attitude comes to mind; Let’s just blame the people below me. Oh wait, wasn’t that generation the same that was complaining that the senior members looks down on the noobs?
No one’s ever considered the fact that it’s themselves to blame for guest immaturity. No one accepts a guest into the community as easily as before. Perhaps it’s those who make them feel unwelcome, and it makes guests feel that they have to fight to be accepted into the community.
You people should realize that the majority of hits coming to this site are actually guests. Removing them wouldn’t result in what you desire; more members. Be guest friendly.
Well fuck me sideways and call me spent...I actually never thought I would ever see the day when I agreed with Sa-X, but here we are at that strange twilight zone junction where i find myself nodding in agreeance with Sa-x.
Way too much finger pointing goes on, many of yo just have to look at your own actions before blaming someone else.
oh and its nice to see the bi-yearly 'oh noes MVC is doomed, lets try and change it' meeting is still running like clockwork.
Geez guys and gals, nothing much has happened at any of the other meetings so what makes you think this one is different.
Look, GG and all the rest of you people who want to drastically up heave everything.....just make another forum in vbulletin and preomote it to the members here.
make it the way you want and if its gonna be as good as yall hope it is, then it will flourish. If not, its gonna sink like shit and thats it sorted.
problems arise when too many of our members start trying to change shit around here.
Firstly, Nerevar stated stuff well in direct reply to SA-X.
You misread the whole thing if you think it’s about mutinying from the site.
I might add it’s not YOUR community. Nor is it mine. It’s ours.
And lastly, yeah we get a lot of hits to THIS particular lounge site from unregistered people. No-brainer. But if you had no guest posting what do you think they’d do? Just turn back around? No, they’d register. No-brainer.
It’s not about discriminating guests from members, it’s about turning guests INTO members. I’ve shown before thru my own actions and the hundreds of other people who were once guests, that people tend to not appreciate a forum when they can post as guests, start threads as guests, etc. You tend to have an attitude to prank, spam, flame, and troll.
So, the lonely thread and the ps3-360-wii thread, for instance. Gets a lot of google hits. That would be a good compromize to allow guests to post only, no starting threads. That at least I can agree would be a compromize. But if you had, hypothetically, no guest posting, just them able to view threads/posts. Then that illicits from them a desire to register. When people register to a new site, they usually endeavor to make friends, be genuine chatters, etc.
Btw, just to re-iterate, i’m talking about the original moviecodec.com stays the way it is completely. Guest posting etc. It’s ideal for THAT part of the MVC network.
But this lounge site is a different species in that sense. It’s not relied on. Because this now has become a regular forum that has nothing to do with codecs and the need to allow them to not register. But this here is like any other forum in the world. All those forums that have no guest posting, only viewing threads, and therefore better mod controls, they have far more success growing as a community and registrations.
--- Look into my eyes and hate me. Part animal, part machine...remain calm, prepare to destroy. Monochromat.
As for vbulletin. What’s the big deal? I dont buy all this 'easier' to hack talk. MVC has been hacked how many times already? How many accounts and mod accounts have been hacked?
That’s not really the point tho. The point with vbulletin is as stated before...1) frees bjarne up from being the one and only person who has to code everything manually in the limited spare time he has. He’s getting older, has responsibilities, family, hobbies, etc. As this site grows (hopefully) it’ll just get more and more taxing on Bjarne especially because as the site grows more problems occur, more tweakings, more changes required.....2) vbulletin is standard infrastructure, supported with yearly updates, is a 'company' that has a network of devs always upgrading the code, incorporating new features to fulfill the demands of millions of forums around the world. It’s a no-brainer better system.....3) Therefore all the related benefits to posters, mods and admin are there at the snap of the fingers. The level of customization is huge.
Anyone against vbulletin is just being silly imo. It streamlines everything, makes everyone’s life easier and better and more fun — bjarne, mods, posters.
--- Look into my eyes and hate me. Part animal, part machine...remain calm, prepare to destroy. Monochromat.
GG, I would like to point out that every step of logic we all take, we must remember even if the changes occurred, it won’t go perfectly. People won’t like the idea. already we have SA-X and Firewolf. Two moderators, along with Silver.
The benefits for everyone can easily be split. Someone will not benefit like the rest.
And there is always the possibility this may not work, even if it was accepted.
As I said, I’m just pointing this out. I’m sure you already know and understand this, but a reminder can always help.
I’ve been waiting for SA-X to respond. So I can quickly reply. But as of now. I must say I truly take no ones side in this.
I can see the idea possibly being accepted. But after that, it will just raise more and more discussions, angry members and arguments.
I would just like to say I’m going to take a step back from this now. I want to see where all of this goes. Please understand.
--- I by the power of Truth, while living, have conquered the Universe
Something is trembling tonight.
There’s always resistance for sure.
But look right now....there’d be hundreds of people who DONT like the way things are — mod controls, guest postings, bjarnes manual coding meaning changes take forever or never, etc. Right now there’s already division with what’s already in place.
And, many people would agree mvc currently is becoming a wasteland. Dying. Same old problems occuring. So...therefore you TRY the other idea for something different, an experiment.
Ie, now — division already, people want change, arent happy with stuff vs people who dont want change, are happy.
So if we DID make all the suggested changes, it would just be swapping sides. Those previously unhappy now happy. Those previously happy now unhappy.
Why not try something new/different? Instead of always having it the same way, and still encountering the problems. Try the other approach. I bet you my banning that it would work.
--- Look into my eyes and hate me. Part animal, part machine...remain calm, prepare to destroy. Monochromat.
Just seems those people so stuck in their ways always wanting everything to stay the same. You’re happier that way. But there’s at least 50% who want change for improvements sake, who are always unhappy or suffering under the system in place — mods, admin, posters.
You’ve had it your way for years, and always the same problems still. So try it this way for a change. Got nothing to lose. How much more of a wasteland are you gonna let happen before change is made? By then it would be too late. The ground infertile.
Too many problems arise by not evolving. Not allowing growth/change as the demands and controls and customizations required aren’t met.
--- Look into my eyes and hate me. Part animal, part machine...remain calm, prepare to destroy. Monochromat.
if you can change the site for the better than by all means do so by approaching Bjarne and convincing him.
I will always stand by his final decision even if I feel it is the wrong one, simply cause it is a privilege to be a moderator on this site and he is the webmaster after all.
Its good and all if you think the site will benefit form any changes and of course, only time will tell if the changes, if any were for the better of the site.
As always, I will be lurking around, no matter what the outcome doing what is required of me in my duties and if those duties change, well so be it.
Good luck to all who wish to effect change and no mater what the outcome, I wish you all the best of luck.
I guess SA-X is right. I know I have a distinct for some guests but he is somewhat correct. We are not really accepting them into the community as well as we should, but that is only about 10-30% of the time. I won’t judge anyone by their first post but first impressions are improtant. If it’s open arms you want SA-X,t then open arms you shall get.
I think people are impressed by cool modern funky designs. like the iphone, etc. One of those ways too is forums. All those old styled threaded forums and non-vbulletin forums are like so 1990 nowadays. Vbulletin offers so much customization in mod/admin controls, and user functionality, but also design of the site. People get drawn into sites over that too.
And guests...
1) a lot of them come to prank, just like we all did as guests
2) a lot of them are banned former members who come to prank and flame/spam/hack out of anger
3) a lot of them are current members logging in as guest to just be silly, etc.
None of these problems of having to always wonder about who a guest might really be and doing IP checks. I insist that genuine guests who hit this site and view it would register if there was no guest posting. And what increases registrations is seeing how many people are online all the time, and reading thru the site and deciding it’s a cool place with lots of great threads/chats — which we do have.
But all the locked threads, all the spam and post-count building threads with conversations like “yeah” “lol” “okayz” in them are a turnoff. People like seeing conversation and debate, people like knowing there are hundreds of people online all the time.
Lonely thread, console war thread, and the most responded thread....these could be guest posting. Just no guest thread creating allowed. And they can view only every other thread. Surely that’s a good compromize.
Also stress ideally to port over all the post counts and existing majority of threads.
But hopefully more people voice their thoughts and ideas, agreements and disagreements in this thread. Including what other mods think, and other long-time regulars. I’d like all of you to truly consider the possibilities/alternatives before taking the knee-jerk reactions of resistance.
--- Look into my eyes and hate me. Part animal, part machine...remain calm, prepare to destroy. Monochromat.
Ideally tho, before I do that, I get consensus agreement from ALL the mods (at least) to agree on certain proposals.
The idea is also about making their life easier, better, giving them more control...as well as us posters having more functions etc.
So I’d like to get all the mods on side with the idea. If the mods are too fractured then it just makes it harder for me to get my way....but even if they’re fractured i’ll still approach bjarne and try my best to convince him.
--- Look into my eyes and hate me. Part animal, part machine...remain calm, prepare to destroy. Monochromat.
Hi gg.
I know it’s pointless to do so, but I will mention a couple things:
I worry that you think everyone is so similar. You have insisted at least twice that EVERYONE has spammed as a guest. It’s simply untrue.
I worry about this strange power-trip you have going on. Sense of self-entitlement, insistence on getting your way, and on bombarding Bjarne until you do.
I think that attitude is self-absorbed and rude.
Not the kind of traits that make MVC any better.
Anywho, I don’t really want to argue about it. Stuff like this just makes me want to leave MVC anyway, I find it tiring and takes the enjoyment out of what could be a nice break away from other responsibilities. Members I like are leaving or coming on less not because of guest spamming, but because of active members on this site and their attitude towards others.
I emailed Bjarne.
Asking him to discuss it with me on msn/yahoo or email.
Asking him to read this thread too.
He’ll probably post in this thread, and if he’s negative towards the ideas or insists on keeping things a certain way, Bjarne, I’m not gonna give up!
--- Look into my eyes and hate me. Part animal, part machine...remain calm, prepare to destroy. Monochromat.
treeplanter wrote:
Members I like are leaving or coming on less not because of guest spamming, but because of active members on this site and their attitude towards others.
I know I’m contributing a little late in the day, but I agree with treeplanter. I think this is one of the key reasons why there is less activity (and less good activity) on MVC than we want.
I don’t think it’s at all a bad thing to encourage guests to register. However, in my time on MVC I’ve seen a lot of what I’m going to call “guest hazing”. Some guests are welcomed here pretty quickly...others are ganged up on pretty quickly. Sometimes this “ganging up” is deserved, but other times it is completely undeserved.
That isn’t a good way to go about growing a forum or encouraging people to become more active.
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