Freiza vs Cooler

Thorn In The Rose

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When douse Goku say it tho id like to know?

Thorn In The Rose

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Cooler did get dimolished he was no match for SSJ Goku in that Movie Frieza however was almost as powerful as him and Mecha Frieza was beyond even this.

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hmmmmmm, i guess you didnt accept my explanations huh?

cooler movie goku was stronger than freeza saga goku. it makes sense if cooler was no where near the power of goku by this point. it only proves that the fifth transformation of cooler was not enough to defeat the additional power boost gained by goku after he defeated freeza.

or, its an hour and a half movie. they didnt have time to include kick ass action scenes between ssj goku and cooler. if they only made it a part of the series or at least 2 hours long, then they could have made the fight i little more interesting. its the same with all the aother movie villains. they were defeated after a few minutes, while the series villains can hold there own for several episodes.

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WRONG. In the manga Gohan or someone says there is a ki the same as Goku’s on namek, If anything Frieza was weaker than before because Trunks owned the hell out of Frieza

guest 91

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well since it was after friza and goku after friza saga was stronger(or as strong) as futer trunks that played around with friza like it was a game and his energy bomb didnt even give trunks truble so i can only assume that since cooler gave goku more of a fight and the energy bomb was really hard for goku to push back that cooler is stronger

Thorn In The Rose

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1. ok i hear you so let’s do this reasonable kk, Goku after Freiza would what at most be twice as powerful after their battle (at the most, as i don’t think he was near death after freiza) next Cooler Movie Goku hasnt IT or the ability to transform into SSJ at will kk (this mean’s no training on Yardrat were he stayed for 1yr and a half training) this is backed by the fact Gohan’s hair is still short and he is still wearing the namek attire he was given (Gohan had long hair upon Goku’s return in the series).

So Movie Goku had done little to know training was enjoying a nice peaceful camping trip with his son and best freind showing he has become rather lax, now Freiza did survive the explotion on Namec correct and was rebuilt stronger and better than ever before (also Freiza knew a great deal on Saiyan’s and their ability to become excesively stronger after battle) so it’s natural to assume he would have his power raised to match what he belived Son Goku’s power to have reached over his absence and to make it higher.

Meanwhile Cooler had not seen an SSJ so him knowing the exact detail’s of his brother’s dimise are shady at best(like for instance their power level’s) so i highly doubt Cooler was awear of Freiza’s true potentiol but he had reached a higher Form given witch obviously would make him feel superior.

Now the fight, Cooler in Final Form was forced to go higher by base Goku not even useing Kaio Ken when Freiza Namek could handle any of Goku’s Kaio Ken level’s with 50% percent of his maximum, in his Ultimate Form Cooler dispached Goku’s Kaio Ken form’s with ease just like his brother did but here is the real decider.

when takeing SSJ Cooler (who if also alot stronger than Freiza should have been able to effect Goku somewhat) had no effect on Goku a punch in the gut dident faze him and a direct blast to the face, Cooler also had trouble tracking Goku’s movement’s in this Form.

Freiza however was almost as powerful made Goku cough up blood took his back and could go toe to toe in energy battle’s and pysical combat, takeing into account any strenth goku rechived after their fight u but need to figure Freiza also became stronger and sure not as strong as Goku Trunk’s saga but deffinately a match for Goku in the Cooler Movie.

2. this is besides the point Cooler’s feat’s were nothing on freiza’s in speed strenth and raw power babe, their are a million way’s that film could have benn shot to show Cooler’s power he could have owned Goku SSJ and Goku needed to find another way to win but no he just dident do jack, Goku SSJ pwned him with ease Cooler had no effect what so ever on him Freiza however did.

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first of all, cooler does know freezas potential.

cooler was not forced to transform. he just wanted to show of his 5th form.

i guess, you still dont understand the situation. sure cooler was weaker than goku, BUT that doesnt mean cooler was weaker than freeza. goku became stronger thats the key why cooler looked weak. goku became so strong that not even a 5th transformation can beat him.

yeah? so, youre disappointed at how they portrayed coolers character in the movie? the point is, cooler has few feats compared to freeza, but that doesnt mean that thats all cooler can do. listen, do you think if they included cooler in the series, do you think cooler will be killed that easily as well? i doubt it. no major villain is killed that quickly in the series.

Thorn In The Rose

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1. were douse it state Cooler knew Freiza’s full potetiol?, the only person who knew was Goku and he never said Cooler was stronger not once.

2. Goku wasnt even useing Kaio Ken untill Cooler tranceformed...and the shear fact Goku was actually kicking his final form’s ass in base form show’s that Cooler was inferior to Freiza atleast up untill he tranceformed into his final ultimate form (Freiza decimated Goku useing but 50% of his maximum while goku used kaio ken to boot) Cooler even said he could see why Freiza may have had trouble dealing with him and he wasnt even useing SSJ or Kaio Ken lol.

3. So your saying Cooler despite being stronger than Freiza couldent even dent SSJ in his 5th form cus he had increased his power that much pft and were might one ask did Goku get all that power?, and ur missing the point Freiza also became much stronger after Namek in order to face Goku who he knew had increased his power over the last year and a half.

4. Yes but every feat Cooler DID use is beaten hand’s down by Freiza, and no i don’t think Cooler would have been beaten so easy given a part in the series cus Akira Toriyama would have done it right lol, the fact is Toia (GT LMAO nuff said) made the Cooler and other surpporting movie’s and with their lack of knollage on the series (giveing Gohan a tail in the Cooler movie wtf, he dident have one at that point, and Goku was still in deep space) fucked up with Cooler’s power and ended up makeing him look alot weaker than he should have actually been...i mean in all hounesty Cooler was weaker than Freiza compareing the two.

Mabe the fact Goku had a near death experiance in the film effected his power...just throwing that out their?

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they were brothers. theyre warriors. who do think they were fighting to prove who is stronger? thats how cooler knows freeza power.

listen, freeza fought a weaker goku. so weak, freeza can kill him with only 70% of his power. now the goku cooler fought, was much much stronger. you should keep in mind the difference of power goku gained between the time he fought freeza and cooler.

its like oh freeza can beat someone weaker than him, while cooler cant beat someone that stronger than him, so that means freezas stronger.

oh and coolers feats are fewer. doesnt mean his weaker. lets see, hmmmmm cooler fried goku at the back, this injury almost cost gokus life. but freezas beam attacks(death beam) just bounces off of gokus hand. yeah, freeza is stronger all right.

Thorn In The Rose

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1. Yea but Cooler had no idea what an SSJ was or looked like or how powerful one was untill Goku transformed, he thought base Goku could give Freiza some trouble when infact Freiza was on par with Goku SSJ (the fact is Goku’s base was womping Cooler without Kaio Ken meaning his 4th form was less than 50% of Freiza’s maximum, as Freiza could demolish Goku kao ken time’s 20 with that percentage)

2. Freiza and Goku both became stronger after the battle on Namek my freind Freiza obviously thought it was enough to beat Goku or else why go to earth in the first place (Mecha Freiza was able to reach power level’s his pysical Body could not possibly handle) so he was atleast ubove Goku on Namek and then some at this point.

3.If Cooler was much stronger than Freiza he could have beaten Goku or atleast put up a decent fight is all im saying Freiza was on par with the so called weaker one then if you add they both got stronger Freiza is more powerful than Cooler come Mecha Form.

4. That’s different Goku was onguard and Freiza was useing what a percent of his true power i mean hardly trying was he lol, and Cooler got a cheap shot in Goku’s ofguard back while he was trying to defend Gohan.

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Hmmm Freiza he did seem overall more powerful in comparison with Cooler’s shabby showing

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In the jap version, Goku says “He’s much stronger than Frieza” whenever he first sees Cooler. He thinks Cooler is Frieza or whatever. Also Mecha Frieza is weaker than SSJ Goku. Gohan said Trunks had the same ki as Goku did on Namek, Trunks UTTERLY OWNED Mecha Frieza and even caught his more powerful attack. We come to find out Goku is even more powerful than Trunks and he had trouble with Cooler’s attack so...Frieza loses.

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1.cooler didnt think freeza was having trouble with base form goku. cooler made an assumption what goku can do. he didnt think goku is on the level of freeza. geeez lady, you should watch japanese version dbz. dont think the english version is correct translation. do some research.

2.freeza also thought that his 100% can kill a ssj. FREEZA ALWAYS UNDERESTIMATES HIS ENEMIES.

3.how many times do i have to tell you this?
A.its an hour and a half movie. so they dont have time show more action compared to the series.
B.yes cooler was weaker than goku, but that doesnt mean hes weaker than freeza. now think, how much power did goku gain after he defeated freeza? now that power boost is stronger than cooler. you keep on comparing the battle of freeza to the fight of cooler. but you keep on forgetting the goku freeza fought was considerably weaker.

4.well, goku could have slapped coolers beam just like what he did to freezas beam, but did he do it? yeah, i thought so.

Dante55555

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You guys are forgetting that Goku DIED against Frieza and came back to life a long time after their two powers were compared by Frieza’s henchmen. Him coming back to life increased his powers even more because, of course, he’s a Saiyan.
Don’t debate that fact with me, please. Vegeta was brought back by the Namek Dragon and later commented on Earth that he was far stronger than before. Mind you, I haven’t watched the Japanese version of it (only seen the Japanese versions of the movies) but it’s what he says in the english dub.

I’ll probably never look at this forum again after a week (just crusing around for pics on google), but I figure I’ll have some fun...

Alright, here I go:

Cooler: “My brother was a fool. I would have killed him myself, eventually. He was always trying to be better than me, to prove that he had the upper hand and he definitely had the edge. Until now. As you know, I am currently in my third form but I discovered a fourth beyond it!"

You know the rest.

Cooler was far beyond Namek Frieza. The argument that Frieza was able to take on 20x Kaio Ken Goku shows how ignorant you are when it comes to DBZ. Did you even watch the movie? If not, let me tell you something: Cooler DESTROYED 20x Kaio Ken without breaking a sweat. He flew directly through a Kamehameha wave that was most likely more powerful than the Kamehameha Frieza barely blocked back on Namek. Didn’t you see Frieza’s hand after the Kamehameha faded? It was scorched black.
Also, Frieza was astounded by the power Goku had displayed. Goku did not use the 20x Kaio Ken for a long period of time(he was already exhausted), so we can’t really CLAIM just how much Frieza could or couldn’t take him on as 20x.
Do note that at 50% of his power, he probably could handle 20x Kaio Ken but he would do so with great difficulty judging by his performance against it (even though it wasn’t for very long). If he took his power up to 100%, remember it’s still just twice as powerful.
Also, I believe that a lot of the Frieza-Goku fight was dragged out to use more episode space. Remember how many times Frieza said “Five more minutes”?
Frieza might have beat Goku around a little bit, but please remember who won in the end. Frieza could not maintain his 100% power anywhere near as long as Goku could maintain his Super Sayian form which, according to you, was just as powerful as Frieza’s max.

Cooler > Frieza

As for Mecha Frieza and Metal Cooler:

Ok, Mecha Frieza. His power was increased, although we are never really told how much. The guy only lasted like three or four episodes, after all. Mecha Frieza was stronger, but Super Sayian Trunks just toyed with him. Goku and Trunks were on an even playing level (as shown later in the little spar between them as Super Sayians), with Goku most likely stronger.

WAIT THOUGH

I know what you’re thinking: “Goku was stronger then though, that doesn’t count. FRIEZA IS UBER STRONGER”

You’re an idiot. Mecha Frieza versus Metal Cooler. Metal Cooler wins handsdown. Want to know my reasoning? Two Super Sayians couldn’t take Metal Cooler down, while one inexperienced Super Sayian(watch the History of Trunks; he has nowhere near the amount of experience Goku and Vegeta have)destroyed Frieza without the slightest problem. The two Super Sayians that Cooler beat weren’t just any run of the mill Super Sayians, either. They were Goku and Vegeta.
Now we aren’t sure exactly when this occurs (the movies are always filled with plotholes..) but it’s somewhere in the Android saga/beginning of Cell saga because Vegeta is a Super Sayian but Gohan isn’t yet.

Metal Cooler > Mecha Frieza

Satisfied? I hope so.

Dante55555

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Now that I read more of this, I’m going to throw a few more things in.

1. “Yea but Cooler had no idea what an SSJ was or looked like or how powerful one was untill Goku transformed,"

Uh, hate to break it to you but..Frieza didn’t either.

“So this is the mighty Super Saiyan? Don’t make me laugh!"

He’d heard the legend, just like Frieza had, but he’d never seen one...just like Frieza.

“he thought base Goku could give Freiza some trouble when infact Freiza was on par with Goku SSJ”

What?! What movie are you WATCHING? EXACT QOUTE FROM COOLER:

“This one’s different. I see how Frieza could have underestimated this one."

He never ONCE claimed Goku was stronger than Frieza. He was constantly asking to see the power that destroyed his brother, never once believing that what Goku was showing him was what killed Frieza! Another EXACT qoute from Cooler:

“Frieza deserved to die if he was killed by a weakling like you!"

Back to more of your statements:

"(the fact is Goku’s base was womping Cooler without Kaio Ken meaning his 4th form was less than 50% of Freiza’s maximum, as Freiza could demolish Goku kao ken time’s 20 with that percentage)"

What makes you think Goku’s power is exactly the same as it was before? Hell, when Goku first appears in the movie he’s training! You need to sit down and watch the movie again.
Also, Frieza NEVER demolished Goku’s Kaio Ken x20. He never even laid a finger on Goku, as a matter of a fact. This is one of my favorite parts of DBZ (I have a lot, but this is up there) so I know this part VERY well. Here was what happened:

Goku activates Kaio Ken, yells some random “I will end you!" line at Frieza.
Goku takes Kaio Ken up to 20x.
Frieza is knocked backwards a little bit by the shockwave.
Goku hits Frieza with a devastating haymaker.
Frieza rockets backward with Goku close behind.
Goku takes another swing, but Frieza dodges.
Goku turns and fires off a Kamehameha at Frieza.
Frieza looks at it wide-eyed and extends his hand to block it.
Frieza has to SCREAM in excertion to block the Kamehameha.
Goku is left panting, exhausted from his final attempt at Frieza.
Frieza is left staring at his charred hand, thinking to himself that he had greatly underestimated the Saiyan.

Cooler, on the other hand, destroyed Kaio Ken x20 with no problem. He flew straight through a Kamehameha that was most likely far more powerful than the one Frieza encountered. There was absolutely no effort used on Coolers part for that stage of the battle.

Cooler > Frieza

“Freiza and Goku both became stronger after the battle on Namek my freind”

Yes...your point being?

“Freiza obviously thought it was enough to beat Goku or else why go to earth in the first place”

To kill all of Goku’s friends before he got there and then later destroy it.

"(Mecha Freiza was able to reach power level’s his pysical Body could not possibly handle) so he was atleast ubove Goku on Namek and then some at this point."

Yes... we weren’t denying that. Frieza was indeed much stronger than he was before, although I really can’t help but have a few nagging doubts that Goku wasn’t going all out at Frieza on Namek. I think he really wanted Frieza to get into the battle (via letting him beat him around a little) and then turn the tables.
Just my two bits.

“If Cooler was much stronger than Freiza he could have beaten Goku or atleast put up a decent fight is all im saying”

Cooler beat the tar out of Goku, kid. Weren’t you watching the movie? Oh, you meant as a Super Saiyan?
The Frieza-SSJGoku fight was drawn out because they could make more and more episodes (almost as many as they wanted) while the Cooler-SSJGoku fight was cut tragically short due to the fact that it was a movie and couldn’t be very long.
Goku would have won anyway.

“Freiza was on par with the so called weaker one”

On par in your opinion. I think Goku was holding back. Either way, Goku defeated Frieza.

“then if you add they both got stronger Freiza is more powerful than Cooler come Mecha Form."

No one said that Mecha Frieza wasn’t...although I would be interested in seeing that fight.
Cooler is invincible in his Mecha form unless you destroy the B.G. Star. Metal Cooler would have destroyed Mecha Frieza no problem. Here’s why: he already knew most of Frieza’s techniques and fighing styles himself already. This is where Frieza can’t win: Cooler had that huge computer behind him, don’t you remember? All of the weaknessess in Frieza’s fighting would have been discovered and instantly exploited.
Cooler > Frieza

“That’s different Goku was onguard and Freiza was useing what a percent of his true power i mean hardly trying was he lol, and Cooler got a cheap shot in Goku’s ofguard back while he was trying to defend Gohan."

===
oh and coolers feats are fewer. doesnt mean his weaker. lets see, hmmmmm cooler fried goku at the back, this injury almost cost gokus life. but freezas beam attacks(death beam) just bounces off of gokus hand. yeah, freeza is stronger all right.
===

Exactly. It wasn’t a matter of a lucky shot. That was a beam with a LOT more power than Frieza’s. I guess if Goku was facing Cooler and had time to concentrate his energy, it’s possible he could deflect it, but it’s impossible to do anything more than speculate over it.

“were douse it state Cooler knew Freiza’s full potetiol?"

They were COMPETITIVE brothers. They had without a doubt fought several times, giving Cooler several oppurtunites to learn Frieza’s full “potetiol." Also, if Frieza had discovered something new that he thought could kill Cooler, he wouldn’t be smart enough to hold it in reserve and wait to surprise Cooler. He’d whip it out first chance he got and try to kill Cooler with it.
Frieza has the common sense of a rotting log, don’t forget.

“the only person who knew was Goku and he never said Cooler was stronger not once."

Yes he did.

“Goku wasnt even useing Kaio Ken untill Cooler tranceformed”

So you’re saying he never would have otherwise? How do you know? Did he pop into your room and tell you?

"...and the shear fact Goku was actually kicking his final form’s ass in base form show’s”

Absolutely nothing. Goku was far more powerful than he was on Namek. He was ON PAR with Cooler. They were on an even playing field. I’ve watched the movie a lot; I know what I’m talking about.

“that Cooler was inferior to Freiza atleast up untill he tranceformed into his final ultimate form”

No, it doesn’t.

“Freiza decimated Goku useing but 50% of his maximum while goku used kaio ken to boot”

...I feel like I’m arguing with a Conspiracy Theorist. Yes, Frieza was destroying Goku in his normal form even when he used Kaio Ken.
HOWEVER, Goku was NOT destroyed by Frieza when he took Kaio Ken to full power. He actually appeared to have the upperhand. Against Cooler, full power Kaio Ken was destroyed without any effort.
Cooler > Frieza

“Cooler even said he could see why Freiza may have had trouble dealing with him and he wasnt even useing SSJ or Kaio Ken lol”

He didn’t say that. He said he could see how Frieza could underestimate Goku. He later said that Frieza deserved to die if he was killed by Goku.


“So your saying Cooler despite being stronger than Freiza couldent even dent SSJ in his 5th form cus he had increased his power that much”

For the love of God use puncuation. If I have to try hard just to read what you’re saying, not just trying to understand your ridiculous logic, we have a problem.

You’re forgetting it’s a movie. Yes, Goku was extremely powerful as a Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan’s have enormous potential that, on Namek, Goku was very much oblivious to. After having used it once before, I believe Goku was able to use it more efficently.
This, however, is my speculation.

“pft”

PFFT! >=P

“and were might one ask did Goku get all that power?"

All the training, all the food he eats oh and the incredible need to put an end to Cooler’s reign of terror.
“The power comes from a NEED, not a want!" Straight from Goku’s lips. Let’s also not forget that he had a near death experience, using your theory against you.

“and ur missing the point”

I guess so!

“Freiza also became much stronger after Namek in order to face Goku who he knew had increased his power over the last year and a half."

-.-;

“4. Yes but every feat Cooler DID use is beaten hand’s down by Freiza”

Please elaborate that statement while keeping in mind that they had dozens and dozens of episodes to develop Frieza’s character while only one movie (three episodes, and that’s pushing it) to show off Cooler.
Frieza was made out to be more of an invincible and unbeatable tyrant than Cooler, agreed, but that’s because he’s in the main story and not just a movie that they made.
Keep these things in mind before you open your mouth.

“and no i don’t think Cooler would have been beaten so easy given a part in the series cus Akira Toriyama would have done it right”

...in the series, no. I think that’s pretty obvious.

“the fact is Toia (GT LMAO nuff said) made the Cooler and other surpporting movie’s and with their lack of knollage on the series”

You are NOT one to be talking about lack of knowledge regarding DBZ, or lack of knowledge at all. Look at your spelling, for godssake...
GT was a dreadful series, but you’re getting off topic, there. Cooler’s Revenge is one of my favorite DBZ movies. They did a fine job on it and if Akira had a big problem with it I think he would have told them.
(Leave GT out of this. I know it sucked, just drop it)

“giveing Gohan a tail in the Cooler movie wtf, he dident have one at that point, and Goku was still in deep space”

The Movies are filled with plotholes! Any DBZ fan that has a working brain knows comes to accept this. I could rant for ages about plotholes, but I’m going to stay on topic.

“fucked”

You said a bad word.

“i mean in all hounesty Cooler was weaker than Freiza compareing the two."

You’re just being stubborn, now.

“Mabe the fact Goku had a near death experiance in the film effected his power...just throwing that out their?"

I think that’s the only thing you’ve ever said that’s made actual sense. Yes, having a near death experience would have increased his power. This, however, would not have been as big of a factor in their fight as you’re making it out to be.

You’re using the SAME arguments over and over, even when they’re disproven by others and you’re provided with the correct situations with facts supporting them! Ignorant people irriate me so much.

Blah.. I’m done.

guest 91

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Does everyone forget Cooler stateing he was stronger and was just going to kill frizza like nothing. Not only that Cooler had a 4th transformation even if his 3rd was just a little weaker then frizza that fact he had a 4th made him way stronger then frizza. And Cooler could gather energy faster then frizza

Tommmmmmmmmm

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frieza wins because he has better fighting skills cooler may have a highper powerlevel and a higher form he cant use them correctly.

Nihilus nli

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Uh, no. Freiza loses because Cooler has more power and strength than his little brother, not to mention that he has one more form than his brother, giving him more power and strength.

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fail. It has been stated Cooler was the stronger brother.

Tommmmmmmmmm

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yes but it is not stated by goku gokus only words are ''OH no hes huge'' those were hes exact words so im in favor with frieza and that is not going to change.