Yeah Sephiroth seems to outright teleport in the movie at times. I would say Sephiroth’s reflexes are on par if not better than Cloud’s, who managed to dodge bolt(Pretty much lightning) So if anything Sephiroth has lightning fast reflexes.
Yeah Warp speed pretty much. Sephiroth’s reflexes are better than Cloud, I agree and would be silly of me to disagree, Sephiroth is pretty much physically better in every way to Cloud.
Danta, Nero and Virgil would own. Nero would use his arm to crush or smash them. And Danta is also super fast just like sephiroth and also has incredible strength and Cant really be killed by swords or guns as shown in the cut seens
Dante and co aren’t going to touch something that is intangible.
Ahh finaly someone who can debate woorth a dam, it’s been sometime since ive found a debate worth sinking my teeth into.
I could say the same for you dude.
Cloud is not hopelessly unskilled it’s just in comparison to Sephiroth he would seem so.
Hopeless is the wrong word methinks, Sephiroth outmatches Cloud as stated but not the point where Cloud is pathetic in comparison.
Now SE say Sephiroth is the best undeniable but he like everyone else can be beaten and like reality this work’s for Cloud to he can be beaten is that fair enough? nowin this battle of VII i alway’s put them on an equal feild were good bad it dousent matter i just look at who is better and who has the most chance of winning due to these fact’s.
Hypothetically Sephrioth stomps everyone in VII because Kitase made him broken with his quote, I know Cloud can be beaten, but he’s the type of character who can beat people more powerful than himself. I know you are doing a probabilty thing here, but you are using a more powerful character vs a character who beats more powerful characters anyway, see where I’m getting at dude?
Ill alway’s say Sephiroth ALL out would punish Cloud terribly and win if left in realistic battle, but the likelyhood of that happening in FF is practicaly 0 due to the good guy factor and Omnislash.
Oh of course, but that would be the same for anyone who fought an allout Sephiroth, but in physical battle, Sephiroth would have to work on the like of Cloud, Chaos, Omega Weiss, and DoC Genesis, but all out he would pretty mcuh destroy them. I know what you mean, but the why is different to the how.
Now the problem i find with the Omnislash is it was never stated what it is bar a limit break (surpassing Limit’s) no mention of how it’s able to beat Sephiroth who is more skilled and faster than Cloud is it just dousent make sence really douse it?
It does make sense because he has to do the UNTHINKABLE to beat Sephiroth, and you couldn’t have it any other way, you have Sephiroth showing his superiority to please Sephy fans, then you have Cloud pulling the Super Ultimate War God Champion Slash (Proper name for Omnislash), to please Cloud fans, and Sephiroth fans won’t bitch about Sephiroth getting beaten, because that move would destroy anybody. Sephiroth proves he’s the best without wining, Cloud proves he can take on beings that are greater than him. Oh and Omnislash the original one is in the blink of an eye SE, I assume the AC one is much faster.
As for the obviouse fact of Sephiroth’s ability being better than Cloud’s i find he did hold back in AC because he is ment to be faster than Chaos Weiss and everyone else in FFVII meaning he dident use all his power as he would be stronger than Azul and Faster than Omega Weiss correct.
SE never said he held back as he was using full powered attacks etc, he actually tried to warp speed Cloud from being ONCE, but it didn’t work, (this was inside the Shinra Building) so it’s obvious there is no point in trying to do it again, Sephiroth is faster than Cloud, but Cloud can react to Sephiroth’s speed. He is stronger than Azul, but the way in which he uses his strength is different to Azul, it’s like Superman and Darkseid, Superman pushes planets, Darkseid is stronger but does no such feats.
But the way ive worked it out so far is this:
CC Sephiroth CC Genesis are on par Angeal was better than Genesis (Hollander even admit’s this and he created Genesis, he even wanted a sample of Angeal’s perfection) apparently Angeal was given Jeanova Cell’s in the Womb just like Sephiroth and was made perfect so takeing into account Sephiroth did get the better of Gen in their battle id say Angeal was probably as good as Sephiroth was, this isnt bull shit it’s in the game lol.
Well Genesis is a dork because he’s wreckless, and that’s his major downside. Angeal is close to CC Sephiroth, I will agree but I don’t think on par is the correct term. SE actually say though that Sephiroth IS the strongest.
Now Sephiroth VII was stronger than everyone naturaly But beaten by Cloud in the end (ill wait till the remake to make my final opinion on this one) So let’s forget what has been and go with this ok, in AC Sephiroth is again much stronger but Cloud beat’s him again.
Sephiroth in VII was still stronger than Cloud just to let you know.
now compairing AC DoC
Cloud beat Russo and so did Vincent we don’t no how Cloud won only he did and tried his ass of, the main point im makeing is this,
We don’t actually know how hard he tried, we just know he didn’t go easy on her as he doesn’t with anyone.
Base Weiss beat Russo’s best Form (3 Russo with all their speed) he also Beat Azul’s best Effort (tranceformed) and say’s he hasnt broke a sweat, now Cloud DoC is more powerful than Cloud AC or am i mad?, and he had difficulty beating Russo and in AC he could Fight on par with Sephiroth for 2 hour’s or something before fatiugeing (in DoC Cloud would have done better due to being better himself correct).
Again we don’t know how the fight went on, we just know that Cloud kicked her arse.
So CC Sephiroth and FFVII Sephiroth were under DoC Base Weiss due to the fact Cloud AC is on par with them and DoC Cloud had real trouble beating someone Base Weiss toyed with plus he had an extra enemy to defeat and both went allout with their best form’s.
See this is what you ain’t getting dude, out of ALL the SOLDIERS including DeepGround, Sephiroth was the best, Shinra confirmed it, SE hasve confimred it, the feats mean nothing when official commentary say otherwise, and I’m pretty sure Sephiroth was beating Behemoths for fun in BC. And again we don’t know if Cloud struggled.
This conclude’s with AC Cloud beat Sephiroth and DoC Cloud is stronger yet Cloud had great trouble with base Russo who base Weiss defeat’s her effortlessly in her maximum along with Azul, now consider Omega Weiss and the fact Chaos beat him and you will see what i mean when i say Chaos and Omega Weiss are superior to Cloud.
Again lol we don’t know if he struggled, just know that he beat her. Omega Weiss and Chaos are more powerful than Cloud and he would be at a disadvantage I’m not arguing that, but this would still be an easier fight than Sephiroth for obvious reasons and we do know what has happened to Sephiroth 3 times.
If you still can’t see my working’s
CC Genesis>CC Angeal CC Sephiroth>FFVII Cloud>FFVII Sephiroth>AC Cloud>Russo Azul>DoC Cloud>AC Sephiroth>Base Weiss>Omega Weiss>Chaos
Actually it’s more like this
Omnislash > AC Sephiroth > DoC Geneisis (?) > Chaos > Omega Weiss > DoC/AC Cloud > pretty much everyone else.
This is what i have gathered from watching and playing the series it’s what ive chosen to belive Gen is under both Seph and Angeal due to reason’s given, Realistic Battle would have FFVII Cloud and Sephiroth next and AC Cloud over the two of them, Russo and Azul at full power would beat AC Cloud as his stronger self had difficulty fighting Russo’s base form, then DoC Cloud would beat them, i don’t think Cloud surpassed Seph’s ability in AC by DoC, Base Weiss literaly blew Russo and Azul away at maximum with no effort Cloud in DoC had trouble so i put him ubove Sephiroth AC cus he dident exactly own Cloud back then nevermind DoC’s stronger Cloud, Next Omega Weiss and Chaos are over them naturaly.
Id put Sephiroth FULL Power at the end but that’s only estimateing how much of his ability that was never used in AC
Official commentary says otherwise, but you can believe that if you want, your opinion, it’s just in a Vs debate it’s kinda redundant.
Sephiroth was at full power in AC and there’s is nothing to rival him and that’s that.
well Airith was behind the strenth boost in my eye’s, but as for Cloud vs Russo all we know is he had to try to beat her the battle was apparently feirce and she was in base form at the start, now Weiss base Form not the overpowered Omega Weiss was shown handing Russo and Azul thir full powered asses without breaking a Sweat and that’s in his natural State.
Aeris was indirectly responsible for him losing Geostigma, that is why he gets his power boost. Cloud has still fought harder opponents that Weiss remember.
Sephiroth AC had the edge over AC Cloud but had to really work to own Cloud the only point he could have killed Cloud was on the roof when Cloud was fatiuged Now if you do take into Account Cloud trained and in DoC was stronger then he could have done alot better against Sephiroth dont you think?
He still would have lost because Sephiroth doesn’t fatigue.
Then imagine Azul and Russo at full power arent even a warm up for base Weiss, you kinda get that Weiss is >DoC Cloud by some margin, and completely ghost’s him in Omega Form as would Chaos (do you honestly see Cloud moveing at those speed’s)?
Cloud has dodged lighting and Sephiroth from behind, the speed isn’t going to put Cloud at a major disadvantage.
Well i respect you opinion as well Buster, but all i can add is im useing realistic battle Sephiroth would beat Cloud if the good guy dident alway’s win, so thus forth would Weiss and Chaos.
My primary reason’s witch i kinda think sum that up are
Sure Cloud can react to warp speed ONCE!, but you have to remember Weiss and Chaos completely disapear in their battle moveing from place to place almost instantly (faster than ive seen anyone move in FFVII) i really do not belive Cloud has shown the speed to avoid a continued speed blitz.
And more importantly Even if Cloud fought and beat Russo at full power he fought her off feircely witch imply’s effort used correct, now Weiss base form owned not only her best form but Azul’s aswell without breaking a sweat so naturaly im to expect Weiss would beat Cloud in base form or Omega Weiss form.
Finaly Sephiroth and Cloud have history weiss and Cloud really don’t so i dont see him haveing a need to humiliate Cloud belittle him or hold anything back as it were you get me, Im also not so sure Sephiroth is ubove everyone in FFVII in every department i just know he is the most powerful being allout.
Well i respect you opinion as well Buster, but all i can add is im useing realistic battle Sephiroth would beat Cloud if the good guy dident alway’s win, so thus forth would Weiss and Chaos.
I respect yours too, and I do see where you are coming from, but to say that, is to take the victory away from pretty much every hero, and simply called them a fluke.
My primary reason’s witch i kinda think sum that up are
Sure Cloud can react to warp speed ONCE!, but you have to remember Weiss and Chaos completely disapear in their battle moveing from place to place almost instantly (faster than ive seen anyone move in FFVII) i really do not belive Cloud has shown the speed to avoid a continued speed blitz.
Cloud has dodged lightning which is faster than anything, he’s also dodged a bullet at point blank, and lets not forget Zack (who is weaker than Cloud) dodged bullets from multiple directions, so it’s a fair assumption that Cloud could dodge Chaos and/or Weiss.
And more importantly Even if Cloud fought and beat Russo at full power he fought her off feircely witch imply’s effort used correct, now Weiss base form owned not only her best form but Azul’s aswell without breaking a sweat so naturaly im to expect Weiss would beat Cloud in base form or Omega Weiss form.
And I could easily say he used full power (which he didn’t as he would use a limit break) to beat Rosso was because he was in a hurry to help Vincent, which is actually true. You forget Cloud owned the remnants too whilst Geostigmatised and in mid-air whilst after Kadaj. Cloud would beat Base form, as Weiss Base is less powerful than Base Sephiroth.
Finaly Sephiroth and Cloud have history weiss and Cloud really don’t so i dont see him haveing a need to humiliate Cloud belittle him or hold anything back as it were you get me, Im also not so sure Sephiroth is ubove everyone in FFVII in every department i just know he is the most powerful being allout
The history means little, as Cloud has beaten villains with no history to him, Weiss won’t hold back because he doesn’t have the spiritual abilities like Sephiroth to hold back. He’s pretty much VII’s broken character, remember 'nothing above him' they were referring to his will AND existance.
Yes the law of the Good Guy is a bad stigma but alas needed to give us hope that light will overcome the darkness in the world, but anyway sure Cloud dodged lightning but he is slower than Chaos and Weiss as they completely disapear when they fight so my point is Spiderman has the best reflex’s in Marvel history but against a constant burage from the Flash he would soon be defeated.
Also that point blank shot kinda scraped Cloud’s head as i remember it.
And i could say Cloud did use a limit break to fend of Russo but the truth is we don’t know what happened only that Cloud had to try, Base Weiss however dousent break a sweat (not includeing the fact he also fought of Azul and both used their best on him) so already you can see Weiss is > Cloud in any form.
I can see why you think Base Sephiroth is over Base Weiss useing CC Weiss but i should remind you that 7yr’s passed to DoC’s Base Weiss who had been greatly enhanced by then haveing all the other Tsveit’s ability’s and so forth, to put it Bluntly Weiss own’s DoC Cloud AC Cloud gave Sephiroth a dam good fight pysicaly DoC Cloud more so and that is AC Sephiroth to reffer to CC Sephiroth (his norm) as stronger is stupid as FFVII Cloud or AC Cloud could beat him.
I have talked with a freind about the brokeness of Sephiroth and we both agree sure Sephiroth is the strongest because the creator’s say so it’s their story BUT as far as continuity go’s Sephiroth is currently dead remember and has yet to use his maximum ability so it’s fair to say other’s have shown superior ability to him for the moment and Sephiroth upon his return would theirfore have to reclaim his title lol, it’s alittle strange i know but it’s kinda like a retcon the creator’s went over their word by showing other’s with greater ability than Sephiroth has currently used (makeing other’s have the issue of assumeing they are superior) when really he just never went allout.
Sorry to make you read all this if you don’t understand it’s cool but that’s just my thought’s i can’t make you go against your veiw
Yes the law of the Good Guy is a bad stigma but alas needed to give us hope that light will overcome the darkness in the world, but anyway sure Cloud dodged lightning but he is slower than Chaos and Weiss as they completely disapear when they fight so my point is Spiderman has the best reflex’s in Marvel history but against a constant burage from the Flash he would soon be defeated.
Cloud’s travelling speed has little to do wih his reflexes, I heavily doubt Chaos is lightning speed, I doubt even Sephiroth is. Spiderman hasn’t got the best reflexes in Marvel, Thanos’s reflexes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spiderman, this guy has dodged the Silver Surfer. I still think he can pull it off, I mean Zack does somthing similar.
Also that point blank shot kinda scraped Cloud’s head as i remember it.
In the tunnel when he;s chasing Kadaj.
And i could say Cloud did use a limit break to fend of Russo but the truth is we don’t know what happened only that Cloud had to try, Base Weiss however dousent break a sweat (not includeing the fact he also fought of Azul and both used their best on him) so already you can see Weiss is > Cloud in any form.
Well there is the fact that he had to help Vincent, although Weiss pwned Rosso, I don’t think he was in the same rush as Cloud was, the circumstance are completly different. Cloud > Base Weiss, even CC Sephiroth is > Base Weiss, whom Cloud cn beat.
I can see why you think Base Sephiroth is over Base Weiss useing CC Weiss but i should remind you that 7yr’s passed to DoC’s Base Weiss who had been greatly enhanced by then haveing all the other Tsveit’s ability’s and so forth, to put it Bluntly Weiss own’s DoC Cloud AC Cloud gave Sephiroth a dam good fight pysicaly DoC Cloud more so and that is AC Sephiroth to reffer to CC Sephiroth (his norm) as stronger is stupid as FFVII Cloud or AC Cloud could beat him.
Five years later in VII I don’t think VII Cloud was better than Base Sephiroth, only in AC. The time difference doesn’t make Weiss more powerful than Base Sephiroth. Omega Weiss is more close to Safer Sephiroth. And Base Weiss is closer to CC Sephiroth but not above.
have talked with a freind about the brokeness of Sephiroth and we both agree sure Sephiroth is the strongest because the creator’s say so it’s their story BUT as far as continuity go’s Sephiroth is currently dead remember and has yet to use his maximum ability so it’s fair to say other’s have shown superior ability to him for the moment and Sephiroth upon his return would theirfore have to reclaim his title lol, it’s alittle strange i know but it’s kinda like a retcon the creator’s went over their word by showing other’s with greater ability than Sephiroth has currently used (makeing other’s have the issue of assumeing they are superior) when really he just never went allout.
Well if you are going by the fact that he’s dead, then he shouldn’t be in this debate LOL. Remember SE said they didn’t want ANYBODY stronger than Sephiroth. Seph doesn’t need to show anything because he’s stated as the best. We know some of his abilities anyways.
Sorry to make you read all this if you don’t understand it’s cool but that’s just my thought’s i can’t make you go against your veiw
Nah it’s no problem, you’re actually one of the better debators on here.
Well i can see you like Cloud a great deal so i won’t push any harder as ill just be repeating myself lol ill just leave it as you have your own opinion of how thing’s work in FFVIIverse and who know’s you may be right.
as a famouse quote once said “i may not always agree with your opinion but id fight so you can keep it”
I think logicaly thing’s are the way i have stated but if you think otherwise that’s your buissiness and your entitled to it, im sure you have your reason’s lol.
Well im done in this debate untill something new and on topic arrive’s take care u all ^.^
(one thing tho you couldent tell me how you arrived at the conclushion Base Sephiroth is over Base Weiss could you as im haveing trouble working that one out see, CC Sephiroth would be beat by any Cloud nevermind Base Weiss???)
Yeah Cloud is my favourite character, I think he’s actually under-rated as I’ve seen people saying all this stuff about Chaos, Sephiroth, Weiss can all beat him without trying, but you’ve said no such thing, which is great because that’s right.
Yup, you are entitled to your opinion as much as I am to mine.
Well CC Sephiroth was the best throughout ALL of SOLDIER, Weiss is a part of SOLDIER, putting Sephiroth over him. I’m sure we only see Weiss go warp speed when he’s Omega Weiss, Sephiroth was doing this in his base form.
And for Cloud, well in VII he soloed Sephiroth who is more powerful than his CC incarnation, he also stud toe on toe with AC Sephiroth who’s way above his CC incarnation, I believe VII Sephiroth is still more powerful than AC Cloud, but not CC Sephiroth.
I’ve copied this from one of my other posts I’ve made on a different Dante VS. Seph topic (I don’t know how to do quotes )
This is what I have said earlier...
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — -
Dante cannot kill Sephiroth as the only way to kill Sephiroth that has actually worked is with Cloud when he used Omnislash...unless Dante can use Omnislash, while not be affected by the other things that can hinder Cloud, then Dante has no real evident win in this fight...(atleast, without people saying “That’s not a fucking omnislash, you can’t kill Seph! N00BZOR!". Oh, and even then, if Sephiroth can regenerate his body in seconds, then why does Omnislash even kill Sephiroth? Explain that to me...
However, this works Vice-Versa. Sephiroth cannot kill Dante. Although Omnislash is a very powerful skill indeed, it cannot kill Dante due to his insane regeneration rate (AKA, the ability to heal a wound nearly as soon as it has been made). Unless one burst that eradicates Dante’s entire existence is made, then I am sure there is almost nothing that could kill Dante...this is an example of what Seph would do...
Sephiroth can destroy the planet whenever he wanted (at his maximum though by what people say...), and since that is what appears to be the only reasonable excuse that he can defeat Dante, that still doesn’t even count...unless Dante pisses off Sephiroth (which is apparently not easy, as Seph likes to toy with people he fights...), then Sephiroth can kill him, but even then Dante has a chance to live, as Dante hasn’t had experiences with 'planet-destroying' attacks, so we have no idea what impact it would have on him...
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A new theory arised when I copied this...if Dante or Seph used a weapon that didn’t allow an enemy to regenerate, then there could actually be an end to this debate...lol
And if Vergil (and supposively Nero) is(/ are) son(s) of Sparda, he (they) has (have) this insane regeneration as well. (and did I say kill when I first mentioned the Omnislash? I meant defeat... /doh )
Hi guys, me again, this is probably my last post before I head to bed, I shouldn’t stay up so late . But I had to get this down before it gets out of my head.
I just developed a theory on how Dante could kill Seph...
Dante uses Quicksilver and Doppelganger, and turns in his DT. He uses the Beowulf’s Energy Beam (not sure on name for that, you should know what it is if you played the game), and waits until the energy gets high enough...Dante then ushers out his full blast, and destroys Sephiroth’s body completely. (Don’t give me that BS that “SEPH CAN’T BE DEFEATED BY BEAMS, ONLY BY OMNISLASH!", OR, “SEPH CAN’T DIE." He isn’t exactly immortal if Cloud can defeat him with Omnislash. Let’s face it, he regenerates alot like Kid Buu in DBZ (if you watch it...if not, watch the parts where he is blown to tons of pieces, it is very similar to what Seph has, and if his body is eradicated completely, I am sure it will take quite a bit of time for his entire body to reincarnate...
This is too much like Ike Vs Ganondorf, because Ike can’t defeat Ganondorf without Master Sword, and Ganondorf can just beat the crap out of Ike no problem, so really, Seph just solos anything and everything unless Omnislash is put in his face...
If Cloud can defeat Seph, Dante can defeat Seph. All Dante just needs is an Omnislash, otherwise everything else = Epic Fail due to the factor everyone believes nothing but Omnislash can defeat Seph...
Dantes Ownageness wrote:
This is too much like Ike Vs Ganondorf, because Ike can’t defeat Ganondorf without Master Sword, and Ganondorf can just beat the crap out of Ike no problem, so really, Seph just solos anything and everything unless Omnislash is put in his face...
If Cloud can defeat Seph, Dante can defeat Seph. All Dante just needs is an Omnislash, otherwise everything else = Epic Fail due to the factor everyone believes nothing but Omnislash can defeat Seph...
The only person that can defeat Seph is Cloud apparently because everyone and their Grandma says “Seph can’t be defeated unless they use Omnislash!"
If Seph can only be defeated by Omnislash, the other team loses automatically because of that gay ass shit.
OK? The only way Seph loses is when it’s a Cloud VS. Seph Fight...So no more of anything else VS Seph, because unless they have Omnislash, people will bitch about it and nothing will get solved. (And yes, you can call me one of those people. )
Dantes Ownageness wrote:
I know that, and so I say this then...
The only person that can defeat Seph is Cloud apparently because everyone and their Grandma says “Seph can’t be defeated unless they use Omnislash!"
If Seph can only be defeated by Omnislash, the other team loses automatically because of that gay ass shit.
OK? The only way Seph loses is when it’s a Cloud VS. Seph Fight...So no more of anything else VS Seph, because unless they have Omnislash, people will bitch about it and nothing will get solved. (And yes, you can call me one of those people. )
It has to be at least as powerful and fast as omnislash.
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