| 02 May 2008 12:09 am |
Future PS3 Owner Rep: 39  Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 12,926 OFFLINE | Bald isn’t a hair color idgit.
Bald is a hairstyle.
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Ace of Spades
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 | | 02 May 2008 02:41 am |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 11 Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 1,591 OFFLINE | petrofsky wrote:
Religion is the belief of a higher power, or a creator. Atheism is against it, the complete opposite. So no, atheism is not religion.
Doesn’t have to be about a higher creator... anything supernatural could come off as religion if it has elements of things such as spirits, dieties or magic.
| | | 02 May 2008 03:04 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 30 Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 7,519 OFFLINE | Atheism=believe in no god
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | | | 02 May 2008 03:24 pm |
El Capitan Rep: 15 Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,180 OFFLINE | Itachi Uchiha wrote:
Atheism=believe in no god
Your saying atheism is a belief. That’s like saying lacking hair is still having hair, or that lacking a hobby is still a hobby. What you’ve just said is, “a lack of X is still X”. Atheism is lack of belief, not belief. Get over it.
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Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007
 | | | 02 May 2008 03:33 pm |
Illysian Moderator Rep: 23 Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 6,737 | ramunematt wrote:
Itachi Uchiha wrote:
Atheism=believe in no god
Your saying atheism is a belief. That’s like saying lacking hair is still having hair, or that lacking a hobby is still a hobby. What you’ve just said is, “a lack of X is still X”. Atheism is lack of belief, not belief. Get over it.
He’s right in a way though. In terms of belief, you’re still believing that no god or gods exist. It can still be classified as a belief in that way.
“I don’t believe in a god or gods” or “I believe in no god or gods” are fairly synonymous, I see, as far as Atheism goes.
Again this doesn’t mean it’s a religion per-se, but a belief.
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[Order Of Illysia forum]
 Last edited 02 May 2008 03:34 pm by Tyreaus | | | 02 May 2008 04:19 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 35  Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 4,144 OFFLINE | Tyreaus wrote:
Gplex wrote:
Tyreaus wrote:
In a way, it could be considered a type of belief system, because you believe that no gods exist. Doesn’t necessarily make it a religion, however.
A disbelief in any god. How the hell can that be considered a belief system. Atheism is the opposite of religion a opposite of a belief, the the lack of one. Do you belief there are pink untageable, invisible unicorns following you and everyone else around, if not that must be class as a belief system too.
Like I said, in a way it’s a belief system; a belief that no gods exist. Me believing that there are no pink, untangable invisible unicorns following everyone around also classes a type of belief, as you can believe that such a thing doesn’t exist.
As well, like I said before, it doesn’t necessarily classify it as a religion.
You can not say that invisible unicorns dont exist! prove it!
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Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. | | | 02 May 2008 04:22 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 35Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 4,144 OFFLINE | Khorib wrote:
I agree with you Gplex, this double-negative stuff is getting very old.
Although now, because of this argument, I simply say that I am agnostic. I am agnostic because there is NO evidence proving the existence of Gaia, nor is there any direct evidence that proves Gaia doesn’t exist. From what we’ve observed in our universe, we have yet to find a need for such a god to exist.
For now, because of the extreme lack of evidence and that we have not even discovered a need for such a “being”, I have decided that there is probably NO Gaia. The same conclusion is also drawn for Zeus, Chronos, Ra/Amen-Ra, etc...
However, because my beliefs are malleable, if suffiecient and convincing evidence is found in the future that a Gaia or a god does exist, then I may become a deist. However, if it known as fact, then it can hardly any longer be considered a belief/faith.
It seems this is lost amoung most people, but this is exactly where I stand 2. But I do believe there are powerfull beings out there somewhere, just as I believe there must be lief else where in the universe, but are these being all powerfull, no because thats impossible.
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Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. | | | 02 May 2008 04:23 pm |
Illysian Moderator Rep: 23Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 6,737 | Gplex wrote:
Tyreaus wrote:
Gplex wrote:
Tyreaus wrote:
In a way, it could be considered a type of belief system, because you believe that no gods exist. Doesn’t necessarily make it a religion, however.
A disbelief in any god. How the hell can that be considered a belief system. Atheism is the opposite of religion a opposite of a belief, the the lack of one. Do you belief there are pink untageable, invisible unicorns following you and everyone else around, if not that must be class as a belief system too.
Like I said, in a way it’s a belief system; a belief that no gods exist. Me believing that there are no pink, untangable invisible unicorns following everyone around also classes a type of belief, as you can believe that such a thing doesn’t exist.
As well, like I said before, it doesn’t necessarily classify it as a religion.
You can not say that invisible unicorns dont exist! prove it!
I really don’t understand what that has to do with the matter at hand. I cannot prove, nor disprove, that these invisible magical unicorns do not exist, however I believe they do not.
To make a tiny point, you can believe these unicorns exist and you can believe they don’t, both sides of which can be considered a belief. Those same unicorns can also be replaced with God. You can believe there is a God, you can believe there isn’t a God. The latter can be worded in two ways; one to show that it is a belief, one to show that it is a lack of belief. In that way, it can be considered a belief.
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[Order Of Illysia forum]
| | | 02 May 2008 04:23 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 35Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 4,144 OFFLINE | Tyreaus wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Itachi Uchiha wrote:
Atheism=believe in no god
Your saying atheism is a belief. That’s like saying lacking hair is still having hair, or that lacking a hobby is still a hobby. What you’ve just said is, “a lack of X is still X”. Atheism is lack of belief, not belief. Get over it.
He’s right in a way though. In terms of belief, you’re still believing that no god or gods exist. It can still be classified as a belief in that way.
“I don’t believe in a god or gods” or “I believe in no god or gods” are fairly synonymous, I see, as far as Atheism goes.
Again this doesn’t mean it’s a religion per-se, but a belief.
What is your definition of a god. I can not mention any more until you do, because you seem stuck on this idea of a god, which you have never defined.
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Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. | | | 02 May 2008 04:26 pm |
Illysian Moderator Rep: 23Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 6,737 | Gplex wrote:
Tyreaus wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
Itachi Uchiha wrote:
Atheism=believe in no god
Your saying atheism is a belief. That’s like saying lacking hair is still having hair, or that lacking a hobby is still a hobby. What you’ve just said is, “a lack of X is still X”. Atheism is lack of belief, not belief. Get over it.
He’s right in a way though. In terms of belief, you’re still believing that no god or gods exist. It can still be classified as a belief in that way.
“I don’t believe in a god or gods” or “I believe in no god or gods” are fairly synonymous, I see, as far as Atheism goes.
Again this doesn’t mean it’s a religion per-se, but a belief.
What is your definition of a god. I can not mention any more until you do, because you seem stuck on this idea of a god, which you have never defined.
My personal definition of a God is a being that transcends our dimension and other dimensions and universes of extreme power and knowledge that created the majority of the multiverse and defies the majority of our known laws of physics.
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[Order Of Illysia forum]
| | | 03 May 2008 03:15 pm |
UBER 1337 Poster Rep: 11 Joined: 23 Nov 2006 Posts: 2,960 OFFLINE | Quick stop to say:
Belief and religion: not the same thing.
YES, Atheism is a belief.
Atheism in NOT a religion.
A belief is the term used to describe anything you believe or don’t believe in. Disbelief is still a form of the belief expression.
“I believe that there is life in the universe”
“I do not believe there is life in the universe”
Both statements are expressions of belief.
Capiche?
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 | | | 03 May 2008 06:57 pm |
El Capitan Rep: 15Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,180 OFFLINE | A lack of X is not X
A belief is a belief, and disbelief is disbelief. Disbelief is not belief. They are not the same. What part of that don’t you people understand?
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Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007
Last edited 03 May 2008 07:13 pm by ramunematt | | | 03 May 2008 07:13 pm |
Illysian Moderator Rep: 23Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 6,737 | ramunematt wrote:
A lack of X is not X
A belief is a belief, and disbelief is disbelief. Disbelief is not belief. They are not the same. What part of that don’t you people understand?
And the statement “I believe that there aren’t any gods?" Is that not expressing a belief akin to Atheism?
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[Order Of Illysia forum]
Last edited 03 May 2008 07:13 pm by Tyreaus | | | 03 May 2008 07:15 pm |
El Capitan Rep: 15Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,180 OFFLINE | Tyreaus wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
A lack of X is not X
A belief is a belief, and disbelief is disbelief. Disbelief is not belief. They are not the same. What part of that don’t you people understand?
And the statement “I believe that there aren’t any gods?" Is that not a belief akin to Atheism?
Saying that would be misrepresenting atheism because the definition of atheism is a lack of belief in a deity or deities.
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Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007
Last edited 03 May 2008 07:16 pm by ramunematt | | | 03 May 2008 07:17 pm |
Illysian Moderator Rep: 23Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 6,737 | ramunematt wrote:
Tyreaus wrote:
ramunematt wrote:
A lack of X is not X
A belief is a belief, and disbelief is disbelief. Disbelief is not belief. They are not the same. What part of that don’t you people understand?
And the statement “I believe that there aren’t any gods?" Is that not a belief akin to Atheism?
Saying that would be misrepresenting atheism because the definition of atheism is a lack of belief in a deity or deities.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Atheism
Oddly, it lists both.
BUT, as Treeplanter said already, this does NOT dictate it as a religion.
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[Order Of Illysia forum]
Last edited 03 May 2008 07:22 pm by Tyreaus | | | 03 May 2008 07:30 pm |
El Capitan Rep: 15Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,180 OFFLINE | Yes, the definition varies in a lot of dictionaries. However, most atheists refer to atheism as disbelief in gods. When you think about it, saying atheism is belief in no god is the same as saying theism is the disbelief in no god. Do you think theism is disbelief?
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Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007
Last edited 03 May 2008 07:30 pm by ramunematt | | | 03 May 2008 07:38 pm |
Illysian Moderator Rep: 23Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 6,737 | ramunematt wrote:
Yes, the definition varies in a lot of dictionaries. However, most atheists refer to atheism as disbelief in gods. When you think about it, saying atheism is belief in no god is the same as saying theism is the disbelief in no god. Which definition of theism would you prefer to use?
Whichever one you want to use is up to you, but it still doesn’t change the meaning. You’d be saying the same thing in a more complex manner. Humans simplify the statement into something more straightforward by saying “I believe in god” or “I disbelieve in god”. In the end, both can be inversed, so they’re both beliefs of different sides. (kind of like opinions, they’re both opinions but they can be completely different from one another)
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[Order Of Illysia forum]
Last edited 03 May 2008 07:38 pm by Tyreaus | | | 03 May 2008 07:49 pm |
El Capitan Rep: 15Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 14,180 OFFLINE | If people want to simplify the statement then why do some people still say atheism is a “belief in no god”? Isn’t “disbelief in god” simpler?
Anyway even without the language barrier, I’m fairly sure atheism ends up not being a belief.
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Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007
| | | 03 May 2008 07:55 pm |
Illysian Moderator Rep: 23Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 6,737 | ramunematt wrote:
If people want to simplify the statement then why do some people still say atheism is a “belief in no god”? Isn’t “disbelief in god” simpler?
Anyway even without the language barrier, I’m fairly sure atheism ends up not being a belief.
The same reason my statements end up more complex than they should be.  No idea, but some people like being different I would suppose.
And, I would have to say that, even if you disbelieve in something, you traditionally believe in the opposite of it, meaning it could be considered a belief or a disbelief. (yes, that means that religions believing in a god could even be considered a type of disbelief, if you were to get that technical)
Really;
Belief in no god = disbelief in god
Belief in god = disbelief in no god
However you word it, it’s synonymous.
Though, beyond that, it really doesn’t make it any more of a religion, and I personally don’t see too big a deal in it being called a belief. Probably the naiveness of my youth speaking though.
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[Order Of Illysia forum]
| | | 04 May 2008 03:39 am |
The Mangekyou Sharingan Rep: 30Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 7,519 OFFLINE | Your saying atheism is a belief. That’s like saying lacking hair is still having hair, or that lacking a hobby is still a hobby. What you’ve just said is, “a lack of X is still X”. Atheism is lack of belief, not belief. Get over it.
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
xx=x2 right...???
now x = x
right...???
atheism=a belief or system that there are/is no god(s)...
like zen or tao...
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“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster — | |
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