There is no such thing as a Completely Selfless act

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Try as you might, it’s impossible to be completely selfless on purpose. But we are this way because we must be. I don’t understand why that is looked at in such a negative light though. I don’t see why we just can’t admit that everything we do is in some way for ourselves.

EVERYTHING we do is for a PROFIT.

Now, when I say profit, I don’t necessarily mean money. When I say profit, I mean it as something held as a higher value to the person, even if it’s just feeling good about yourself.

When you give a homeless guy on the street $5, you did it because the feeling you get for giving him $5 is worth more to you than the $5. The good feeling was the profit.

Doing something to ultimately go to heaven is another example. The act is driven by your desire the be viewed positive by your god and be able to get into heaven. Not everyone is driven by this reason, but those who are “god fearing” usually are.

Something as simple as doing good deeds (helping ladies across the street, etc...) are usually earning the profit of feeling good about yourself.

If we are not going to receive profit of some sort for the deed, then we will not do it. It would be considered “unworth it”. And when we do something that reaps nothing in return (not even a good feeling) then we feel cheated.

Have you ever given someone something that you thought they might like, and you spent either your time or money on this gift. When you give them the gift and expect to see them happy, they either disregard or dislike it. Do you at first regret giving them the gift in the first place? In a sense, they cheated you out of the feeling you were expecting to receive in return for giving them that gift. At least until you can justify later that the gift will be of use to them regardless, and you have actually helped them regardless of what they think. You’ve justified it so that you can still feel good about giving them that gift.

Again, I don’t see why this should be something to be ashamed of. This a truth that we should be aware of to avoid hypocrisy.

Last edited 20 May 2008 09:42 am by Khorib

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It’s not necessarily hypocritical but there is also the fact that it’s because you care about people and not that you really enjoy doing it or actually get anything out of it, even a feeling. You may end up getting a bad feeling and you know you will but you do it anyways. It depends on how you look at it.


Edit: I forgot to say that I agree that there is nothing wrong if you do something for yourself unless you’re hurting innocent people.

Last edited 19 May 2008 06:04 pm by the21gamer

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Yes and no.
Yes from the standpoint that anything you do to help someone else will help you, and no if you truly don’t do it to help yourself in any way.

guest 91

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being drafted (not by choice) and then shot n killed in the first battle you are in i would say that is a pretty selfless act.

You are trying to keep your country safe and have given your life for it you cannot feel good about the act of fighting since you are dead

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to Guest 91.. I said it is impossible to be selfless on purpose. Getting drafted or shot is not within your control. Plus, the reason one might obey the draft is so they don’t go to jail. Another reason they might obey the draft is because they figure since they are drafted anyway, they are doing the country a service, and it makes them feel like they are doing something for the better, and helping many people... which feels good to know.

Red_Calibur9 and the21gamer, I don’t think you thought about this before you responded. You don’t have to be conscious about doing something for yourself to actually be doing it ultimately for you. We do this most of the time unconsciously. The point in the end is that if you did not profit in someway, you wouldn’t do it. There ARE times that you are expecting something out of the situation (your profit), but you don’t receive it... but the point being, you STILL did it atleast in part for yourself.

I want you to give me an example that will prove me wrong.

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I’ve thought of this before and come up with the same conclusion, but if you think about it, even doing selfish things can be seen as partially selfless as well. For example, you take medicine to make yourself better. You aren’t getting other people sick and you’ll probably feel better, something that travels along to other people. Or anything else you do for your profit, could benefit other people (such as your friends) because you gain a slightly better lifestyle and make yourself happier, which travels onto your friends.
I don’t know, I haven’t put much thought into this alternative way of looking at it, but it sounds like it makes sense to me. -shrugs-

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I’ll buy that for a dollar

But yeah, of course there are things that you do, regardless of how selfish, that can benefit others indirectly... Hell, even dying leaves more room for others to live. You could even point that logic at the Nazis and say that, in the long run, they possibly benefited the planet and other people by wiping out zounds of the population. Hell, we know the Mexicans are benefiting from the fact we wiped out the Native Americans to established this country :P

Last edited 21 May 2008 12:17 am by Khorib

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fuck u Tyreaus

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I LoL my shorts!

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Pants!!!

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No, I’ve thought about it. You just don’t understand what I said.

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Ditto

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I don’t feel good about giving people money. If I give a homeless man $5, I feel like I lost $5. My religion isn’t about works anyway.

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I’m fairly certain I understood exactly what you said and meant, unless you accidentally worded it wrong. Regardless, you still haven’t provided me with an example of an act you can purposefully commit that is completely selfless.

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I gave you everything you needed to work on. If you don’t understand then you don’t understand. Sometimes you just need to learn things on your own. If you have never done anything that you get nothing out of, not even a good feeling then you won’t understand.

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Or.......... you are just being avoidant. The whole point is to discuss the topic. I have done things that made me feel quite crappy, but I did it because not doing it was worse. That was what I got out of it... being able to avoid a worse alternative, or one that would make me feel even shittier.

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How old are you? It’s just a matter of experience. You probably haven’t experienced what I have yet.
Avoiding? Here’s what you should ask yourself. Are you doing things to avoid that feeling or are doing it because others are getting something out of it. There a instance when infact you feel worse than how you would have felt if you had not done it. The point in a discussion is to learn. I can give you direct answers and you won’t understand them. Thinking needs to be involved. That’s why some people don’t tell you everything. You have to figure things out for yourself.

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Hey Khorib,

If you want to put a word to it, you’re talking about altruism.
A couple years ago I remember listening to a speaker on the radio talk about this very thing, which got me thinking as well.

I think the problem with the idea that there are no altruistic acts is by what we classify as a “benefit” or self-serving.

Good feelings are one thing...what about satisfactory feelings? Or like you mentioned...feelings of, “well, the alternative is worse”, but really, being fine with either one.

I mention this stuff because altruism is fine as a theory, and ok, maybe almost no one has been “truly” selfless. But the idea of selflessness is a human concept and thus we get to define it. Humans in general have classified what is selfless or not and depending on your culture there are different ways this will be viewed.

Anyway, what I mean is that it’s all fine and dandy to say that no one can truly be altruistic...but then so what? Where does that actually lead you?