strong wrote:
Evolution dusnt disprove God nyways. Science isnt opposed to religion, anymore than its opposed to athiesm. Science is a neutral factor, and a huge % of christians are non-creationist nyway. When u consider most of the old testament is metaphor, (e.g book of Job; all of life is a test of goodness, and noahs ark; God made things extinct (like the dinasours) so that humans could arise, and he promises not to make us extinct) genesis makes far more sense
dont you mean that most of the OT is said to be in metaphor.
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
BTMN wrote:
We can’t go around changing the definition of words simply to pacify superstitious fears. If we consider god as defined in the Big Three: Christianity, judaism, and Islam (and their respective off-shoots) then evolution does disprove the existence of god. If you believe that man and man alone has a soul, as the Big Three says, and you believe in evolution, then at what point does an animal gain a soul? Does god wait until they reach a certain moral authority? Or did He build us with some kind of soul-switch that kicks in once we begin to feel guilt for our “sins”? If, however, you believe in say Hinduism or buddhism then there’s room for evolution, but really those belief systems see “god” as an archetype, not as a consciousness concerned with judging our actions. Which is really a figurative interpretation, and hence disproves His existence anyway.
Thats a big if to leave out all those other gods, and only include the ones that you want. Evolution is against the bible, the the existence of a god.
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
I’m not leaving out any gods, I’m pointing out the fact that it isn’t spiritual belief that flies in the face of evolution, I’m saying that it’s only a handful of philosophies. Those that have dictated what god is for centuries, and now that science advances further than the scope of their imaginations, they try to redefine their concepts For example: The Roman Catholic church recently decided that Purgatory no longer exists. It just so happens membership is up in Africa where many children, innocent souls who never got the chance to accept Jesus Christ as their saviour, die of AIDS and various massacres every year. So, because the reality of a situation conflicts with your beliefs you rewrite reality? The problem is in belief structures that attempt to force the idea that there way is the only way, or reality. A healthy philosophical and/or spiritual belief system attempts to help the individual to live a better life, but doesn’t insist everyone else accept their way, or else.
ramunematt wrote:
Chimps DO know whats right from wrong. In the 60’s there was an experiment that tested a chimpanzee’s morals. The chimp was hungry and there was a piece of food in front of it. However, they made it so that the chimp knew if it took the food then another chimp would get an electric shock. The chimp didn’t take the food. This has been done with other animals too.
BTW animals have also been seen to have their own culture and perform rituals. Humans and animals are not as different as you may think.
Also, what makes you think an animal can sin? Animals didn’t come from Adam and Eve, so they wouldn’t be able to inherit or know about sin.
ive said it before and ill say it again
dont assume all christians are creationist.
That has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that you said animals don’t know right from wrong when they clearly do.
BTMN wrote:
I’m not leaving out any gods, I’m pointing out the fact that it isn’t spiritual belief that flies in the face of evolution, I’m saying that it’s only a handful of philosophies. Those that have dictated what god is for centuries, and now that science advances further than the scope of their imaginations, they try to redefine their concepts For example: The Roman Catholic church recently decided that Purgatory no longer exists. It just so happens membership is up in Africa where many children, innocent souls who never got the chance to accept Jesus Christ as their saviour, die of AIDS and various massacres every year. So, because the reality of a situation conflicts with your beliefs you rewrite reality? The problem is in belief structures that attempt to force the idea that there way is the only way, or reality. A healthy philosophical and/or spiritual belief system attempts to help the individual to live a better life, but doesn’t insist everyone else accept their way, or else.
what? you talk about gods, evolution, now you pulling it to spiritual belief system, sorry but you lost me.
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
A spiritual belief system in and of itself may or may not incorporate the idea of god. This does not necessarily fly in the face of evolution, due to the fact that this is an interpretation of reality. It is only when you try to impose your belief system on others, as the only interpretation of reality, that problems ensue. Such as explaining away evolution as the hand of god, by essentially redefining what (or who) god is.
because we created the ideas of right and wrong. animals may feel and act but they don’t know the idea. most don’t anyways because they have to survive while we can sit around on couches all day.
But are our ideas of right and wrong not based on survival?
And again... how do you know animals haven’t created the ideas of right and wrong themselves? We’ve definitely proven that they have morals. Who is to say right and wrong are exclusively to humans?
animals feel right and wrong or 'morality' but they do not know the idea. they feel it just like we usually and act on it just like we do. they just don’t have any philosophies on it and only feel it really.
yes, i think part of it is based on survival. we felt it and that was how we survived. but after thousands of years we were given the chance to sit down and think about right and wrong and so we dont just feel it. we have concepts of it and philosophies.
most animals are too busy surviving to sit down think about it all. right now they just really feel it and act.
Online Predator wrote:
you misunderstood what i was saying.
animals feel right and wrong or 'morality' but they do not know the idea. they feel it just like we usually and act on it just like we do. they just don’t have any philosophies on it and only feel it really.
yes, i think part of it is based on survival. we felt it and that was how we survived. but after thousands of years we were given the chance to sit down and think about right and wrong and so we dont just feel it. we have concepts of it and philosophies.
most animals are too busy surviving to sit down think about it all. right now they just really feel it and act.
Animals have consciousness. We have a good idea of how consciousness works in our brains and our brains aren’t too different from most animals. Some of them, such as chimpanzees, have brains so developed that their level of consciousness might not be too far away from our own. We know that animals can think. We’ve observed them with morality, we’ve observed them perform rituals, we’ve even observed culture in animals. I would find it hard to believe that some of the known smartest animals, chimps, crows, parrots, dolphins, and pigs, are not capable of philosphy.
You don’t have to be an atheist or a nihilist to know how consciousness works. Do you actually believe that consciousness works because of god? Try doing some neuroscientific research.
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