J peth wrote:
because they will never submit no mater what you say thus it is a stalemate...
Yeah, but there are those like Gplex that will say anything to try to persuade people to go A-wall. (see wut I did thar?)
thus they are the unstoppable object, they will not stop trying to persuade the creationists from there belief. and the unmovable object is the creationists who (the majority i mean) will not stop believing no mater what the evidence.
Explain evidence. B/c in the 1700’s they said they had all the evidence to prove that the earth was in the center and the other planets revolved around it. They even used science and models to prove/fit it. For some reason people like to think that the era they live in is so advanced that they have all the correct answers.
Nothing is for sure but you must understand We have so much more advancement and tecnology now from the 1700’s it’s not even funny. It’s also pointless to worry about what we MIGHT find an era from now. According to the evidence presented now, we have answers and conclusions drawn from them. Such as Evolution. It could be disproved tomorow, as unlikely as that is it COULD happen. It means the evidence would point a different way.
So thats about it. You must look at the present evidence. As for the earth being the center, I thought that was further back than the 1700’s and was that the church who had these models so it could fit their biblical teachings? Anyway, we have advances beyond belief since then. Not only in knowledge, but medicine,transportation,tools,clothes,homes,work conditions, safer work places,weapons,etc.
and to the people back in the 1700’s they were all this compared to the people back in the 1400’s. You want to believe that we are more advanced then we really are. People 100 years from now will say the same thing about us now and pepole 100 yeas from them will say the same thing. what you are saying is relevent to the present of any era and can be said by any era x years after
So you’re saying that we should realize that everything we know now in the present will be outdated and worthless 100 years in the future?
i think everyone is missing the point. back then they thought they know everything and what not. 50 years ago they thought they knew everything and what not. every generation thinks they know everything and have the answers to everything throught history. Its just the way it is. chibi is sounding just like this about todays world. The truth is us humans are not that smart.
Point out a race or spieces smarter.
angels, demons, spirits.......if you’re that way inclined...
J peth wrote:
because they will never submit no mater what you say thus it is a stalemate...
Yeah, but there are those like Gplex that will say anything to try to persuade people to go A-wall. (see wut I did thar?)
thus they are the unstoppable object, they will not stop trying to persuade the creationists from there belief. and the unmovable object is the creationists who (the majority i mean) will not stop believing no mater what the evidence.
Explain evidence. B/c in the 1700’s they said they had all the evidence to prove that the earth was in the center and the other planets revolved around it. They even used science and models to prove/fit it. For some reason people like to think that the era they live in is so advanced that they have all the correct answers.
Nothing is for sure but you must understand We have so much more advancement and tecnology now from the 1700’s it’s not even funny. It’s also pointless to worry about what we MIGHT find an era from now. According to the evidence presented now, we have answers and conclusions drawn from them. Such as Evolution. It could be disproved tomorow, as unlikely as that is it COULD happen. It means the evidence would point a different way.
So thats about it. You must look at the present evidence. As for the earth being the center, I thought that was further back than the 1700’s and was that the church who had these models so it could fit their biblical teachings? Anyway, we have advances beyond belief since then. Not only in knowledge, but medicine,transportation,tools,clothes,homes,work conditions, safer work places,weapons,etc.
and to the people back in the 1700’s they were all this compared to the people back in the 1400’s. You want to believe that we are more advanced then we really are. People 100 years from now will say the same thing about us now and pepole 100 yeas from them will say the same thing. what you are saying is relevent to the present of any era and can be said by any era x years after
So you’re saying that we should realize that everything we know now in the present will be outdated and worthless 100 years in the future?
i think everyone is missing the point. back then they thought they know everything and what not. 50 years ago they thought they knew everything and what not. every generation thinks they know everything and have the answers to everything throught history. Its just the way it is. chibi is sounding just like this about todays world. The truth is us humans are not that smart.
Point out a race or spieces smarter.
angels, demons, spirits.......if you’re that way inclined...
Prove they exist and prove they are smarter
he said “if your that way inclined” and thus he is saying that if u believe in them.
ok...im not sure where the whole debate has gone but i just wanted to..!!?..anyways..why would man make up a God that he cant understand? whats the motive. I mean the atheist stance is that he is made up, formed out of the minds of humans......If this is true, why is He so far from anything else man has ever thought up,.....He seems to be alone, flawless, in control of time, and seems to be entirely with a different set of limitations and is fact nothing like we have ever come up with.....He gives free will, loves us completely and knows everything....the thing is other gods and entities are made up of from a mirror of what we know however WE are made according to His reflection of Who He is......so why then would man make a up a God that he cant understand....whats the benefit of so elaborate a hoax ? i am specifically referring to God, who is One in substance, Triune in His economy and move, and intensified 7 fold in His ultimate manifestation and expression......The God in the Bible.....
Watchman wrote:
ok...im not sure where the whole debate has gone but i just wanted to..!!?..anyways..why would man make up a God that he cant understand? whats the motive. I mean the atheist stance is that he is made up, formed out of the minds of humans......If this is true, why is He so far from anything else man has ever thought up,.....He seems to be alone, flawless, in control of time, and seems to be entirely with a different set of limitations and is fact nothing like we have ever come up with.....He gives free will, loves us completely and knows everything....the thing is other gods and entities are made up of from a mirror of what we know however WE are made according to His reflection of Who He is......so why then would man make a up a God that he cant understand....whats the benefit of so elaborate a hoax ? i am specifically referring to God, who is One in substance, Triune in His economy and move, and intensified 7 fold in His ultimate manifestation and expression......The God in the Bible.....
if it is a hoax (i really don’t know myself if it is or isn’t...) then the reason for making it would be power to the man who created it (power being influence with the masses), and if it wasn’t made for power it was made so that people would have a set of morals to follow.. like the stories that parents tell to children so they do as there told...but on a larger scale
Watchman wrote:
ok...im not sure where the whole debate has gone but i just wanted to..!!?..anyways..why would man make up a God that he cant understand? whats the motive. I mean the atheist stance is that he is made up, formed out of the minds of humans......If this is true, why is He so far from anything else man has ever thought up,.....He seems to be alone, flawless, in control of time, and seems to be entirely with a different set of limitations and is fact nothing like we have ever come up with.....He gives free will, loves us completely and knows everything....the thing is other gods and entities are made up of from a mirror of what we know however WE are made according to His reflection of Who He is......so why then would man make a up a God that he cant understand....whats the benefit of so elaborate a hoax ? i am specifically referring to God, who is One in substance, Triune in His economy and move, and intensified 7 fold in His ultimate manifestation and expression......The God in the Bible.....
“God did it”. That’s it. That’s all you really need to invent all god’s characteristsics. Any question that we haven’t been able to answer such as where we came from, how the universe started, etc. "'Why do we have free will?', 'god did it'". "'how did the universe get here?', 'god did it”. It doesn’t require a genius or a clever imagination to come up with such a simple and lazy answer. Have you ever wondered why god has such human-like characteristics? It couldn’t be because he was made up by humans could it? Because that would make perfect sense.
If you’re going to say that god is real because he sounds too complex of a fictional character for you, then I guess you’lle also have to accept the even more complex characters in fictional stories as true too. I guarantee there are fictional characters who’s personalities and/or powers are far more complex than god. Take Batman for example. Unlike god, Batman doesn’t kill people if they’ve done wrong, and he has TWO identities that far differ from eachother. I’d say Batman is far more complex of a character than god. So by your logic, he must be real right?
But back to my original point, man’s motive for inventing god is for two things. To pretend to know everything, and to control people. What fictional character could control people out of fear more than a maniacal, mass murdering, genocidal, racist, homophobic, malevolent, sadistic control freak and dictator who has absolute power over the entire universe that will send you to a fiery place to burn in agony for the rest of time if you don’t do exactly what he says?
Watchman wrote:
ok...im not sure where the whole debate has gone but i just wanted to..!!?..anyways..why would man make up a God that he cant understand? whats the motive. I mean the atheist stance is that he is made up, formed out of the minds of humans......If this is true, why is He so far from anything else man has ever thought up,.....He seems to be alone, flawless, in control of time, and seems to be entirely with a different set of limitations and is fact nothing like we have ever come up with.....He gives free will, loves us completely and knows everything....the thing is other gods and entities are made up of from a mirror of what we know however WE are made according to His reflection of Who He is......so why then would man make a up a God that he cant understand....whats the benefit of so elaborate a hoax ? i am specifically referring to God, who is One in substance, Triune in His economy and move, and intensified 7 fold in His ultimate manifestation and expression......The God in the Bible.....
if it is a hoax (i really don’t know myself if it is or isn’t...) then the reason for making it would be power to the man who created it (power being influence with the masses), and if it wasn’t made for power it was made so that people would have a set of morals to follow.. like the stories that parents tell to children so they do as there told...but on a larger scale
if man created God then many of the precepts that humans base much of their beliefs on, are false.....but if people need a set of morals to follow, it follows why invent something that is the standard by which you must live....its like inventing a colour thousands of years ago, which does not exist....as for the coercing the masses for some kind of control, exactly who is behind this...which person or group in the ancient world said " right boys, we are having a conference on making up God..i suggest omnipotence....(another yells for Omniscient” and so on......more importantly, I dont see anyone in the world today who gains from such a dupe...barring the catholic church...and certain ayatollas, free groups all who usually have an other agenda.....consider this...atheists claim that the universe has no meaning, and therefore human existence is ultimately without purpose. But if the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning......if we have no purpose, we should never have found out that we have no purpose. If the universe and mankind have no reason for being here, we should never have been able to discover that they have no reason for being here....
Watchman wrote:
ok...im not sure where the whole debate has gone but i just wanted to..!!?..anyways..why would man make up a God that he cant understand? whats the motive. I mean the atheist stance is that he is made up, formed out of the minds of humans......If this is true, why is He so far from anything else man has ever thought up,.....He seems to be alone, flawless, in control of time, and seems to be entirely with a different set of limitations and is fact nothing like we have ever come up with.....He gives free will, loves us completely and knows everything....the thing is other gods and entities are made up of from a mirror of what we know however WE are made according to His reflection of Who He is......so why then would man make a up a God that he cant understand....whats the benefit of so elaborate a hoax ? i am specifically referring to God, who is One in substance, Triune in His economy and move, and intensified 7 fold in His ultimate manifestation and expression......The God in the Bible.....
if it is a hoax (i really don’t know myself if it is or isn’t...) then the reason for making it would be power to the man who created it (power being influence with the masses), and if it wasn’t made for power it was made so that people would have a set of morals to follow.. like the stories that parents tell to children so they do as there told...but on a larger scale
if man created God then many of the precepts that humans base much of their beliefs on, are false.....but if people need a set of morals to follow, it follows why invent something that is the standard by which you must live....its like inventing a colour thousands of years ago, which does not exist....as for the coercing the masses for some kind of control, exactly who is behind this...which person or group in the ancient world said " right boys, we are having a conference on making up God..i suggest omnipotence....(another yells for Omniscient” and so on......more importantly, I dont see anyone in the world today who gains from such a dupe...barring the catholic church...and certain ayatollas, free groups all who usually have an other agenda.....consider this...atheists claim that the universe has no meaning, and therefore human existence is ultimately without purpose. But if the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning......if we have no purpose, we should never have found out that we have no purpose. If the universe and mankind have no reason for being here, we should never have been able to discover that they have no reason for being here....
This post of yours has no meaning...
What logic are you using to determine that if the universe ultimately has no meaning, then it is impossible to realize the truth of it having no ultimate meaning???
If you are basing this off of philosophically realizing no meaning vs meaning.... I can tell you now that each and every individual creates their own meaning. We are all capable to some degree of deciding what we want to do with our lives. We are also capable of reflecting upon our lives and the lives of others to draw conclusions on what you and they have accomplished.
I believe you’re only being ignorant if you deny evolution. One must admit the tremendous amount of evidence and proof is just simply overwhelming. This does not, however, deny the existence of a God-like being.
who can deny evolution....i...i just find the holes within it to complex....mathematical laws, 1st law of thermodynamics, 2nd law of thermodynamics, transitional fossils just to name a few....it seems that cages are always rattled ......im also just realizing the premise of modern science evolution seem to be based on the metaphysics of the Bible.... the idea that the universe is rational, it obeys laws and that these laws are accessible to our human minds......hmmmn.....call me barmy for believing in God but cmon, the universe and all its laws created themselves..?!! then would be how did these laws(kempler laws of planetary motion, newtons law inverse square and many others get there.... how can such a fined tuned universe (which has no darwinian theology) exist...
nature reflex these laws...how does nature behave according to laws anyways...you and and I can do , but how can an electron or an inanimate thing follow a law .....naaa, it just piss and lightning....whilst it (evolution) can suggest to us why we adapt, it doesn’t tell me why I think certain things are true, or not....I may be wrong....or not.
Dude, all the reasons you just listed as “holes” in evolution are either untrue or common misconceptions made by creationists. Evolution does not contradict mathematics, the first law of dynamics, second law of thermodynamics, and we have plenty of transitional fossils.
If you don’t believe me then here are a few. The video is only 55 seconds long so you have no reason not to watch it.
And to this thread, here is a video that show what creationists MUST deny
I think the word “Law” is being stretched out too far, watchman. God’s “law” and scientific “law” do not have anything to do with each other. The word “law” is being given a different meaning by both. As for God’s law.. you can disobey. You cannot disobey scientific law.
As for scientific law, we are discovering much more in the field of physics, and some of the findings are putting contradicting some of what we originally thought was impossible. When that happens, the old “laws” are reevaluated and attempted to be corrected. Like we thought it was impossible for something to travel faster than the speed of light, until we were able to push radiowaves even faster. This does not mean failure, this means advancement.
whatever..... gravity was completey from the first. No growth; no evolution. The laws of light, heat, electricity, etc., remain unchanged. Light travels with the same unvarying velocity, as when, 60,000 years ago, it started from the distant star-cloud....... Some estimate our universe to be 1,000,000 light years across. Yet in all these limitless reaches, the same perfect and complete laws prevail, touching light, heat, electricity, gravitation, etc. no mistakes and no evolution is needed.....
Watchman wrote:
ok...im not sure where the whole debate has gone but i just wanted to..!!?..anyways..why would man make up a God that he cant understand? whats the motive. I mean the atheist stance is that he is made up, formed out of the minds of humans......If this is true, why is He so far from anything else man has ever thought up,.....He seems to be alone, flawless, in control of time, and seems to be entirely with a different set of limitations and is fact nothing like we have ever come up with.....He gives free will, loves us completely and knows everything....the thing is other gods and entities are made up of from a mirror of what we know however WE are made according to His reflection of Who He is......so why then would man make a up a God that he cant understand....whats the benefit of so elaborate a hoax ? i am specifically referring to God, who is One in substance, Triune in His economy and move, and intensified 7 fold in His ultimate manifestation and expression......The God in the Bible.....
if it is a hoax (i really don’t know myself if it is or isn’t...) then the reason for making it would be power to the man who created it (power being influence with the masses), and if it wasn’t made for power it was made so that people would have a set of morals to follow.. like the stories that parents tell to children so they do as there told...but on a larger scale
if man created God then many of the precepts that humans base much of their beliefs on, are false.....but if people need a set of morals to follow, it follows why invent something that is the standard by which you must live....its like inventing a colour thousands of years ago, which does not exist....as for the coercing the masses for some kind of control, exactly who is behind this...which person or group in the ancient world said " right boys, we are having a conference on making up God..i suggest omnipotence....(another yells for Omniscient” and so on......more importantly, I dont see anyone in the world today who gains from such a dupe...barring the catholic church...and certain ayatollas, free groups all who usually have an other agenda.....consider this...atheists claim that the universe has no meaning, and therefore human existence is ultimately without purpose. But if the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning......if we have no purpose, we should never have found out that we have no purpose. If the universe and mankind have no reason for being here, we should never have been able to discover that they have no reason for being here....
so what your saying is that the jewish priests of old and the man who called himself “jesus” didn’t get anything out of it?
Watchman wrote:
whatever..... gravity was completey from the first. No growth; no evolution. The laws of light, heat, electricity, etc., remain unchanged. Light travels with the same unvarying velocity, as when, 60,000 years ago, it started from the distant star-cloud....... Some estimate our universe to be 1,000,000 light years across. Yet in all these limitless reaches, the same perfect and complete laws prevail, touching light, heat, electricity, gravitation, etc. no mistakes and no evolution is needed.....
Just because something is not needed does not mean it’s not there. Do you need to go on this site? Do you need to go to school after highschool, do you have to have to be a millionaire, do you have to have expensive clothes? You get my point by now.
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