A certain someone has been claiming that this guy killed in the name of atheism.
Saloth Sar (May 19, 1925 – April 15, 1998), also known as Pol Pot, was the leader of the communist movement known as the “Khmer Rouge”
The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions had an estimated death toll of 750,000 to 1.7 million (approximately 26% of the population at that time).
So he didnt go out and slaughter all those millions as a few people said... trying to confuse communist with atheist is just being deceitful.
Mao Zedong; December 26, 1893–September 9, 1976 was a Chinese military and political leader who led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976.
Another communist, surprise, suprise...
Joseph Stalin (December 18, 1878 – March 5, 1953) was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union’s Central Committee from 1922 until his death in 1953.
Another communist.
How Many Were Killed by Communists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?
None, probably.
How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic, right? So weren’t all of those people killed because of atheism — indeed, in the name of atheism and secularism?
No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn’t a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.
People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not murder in the name of atheism.
But weren’t a lot of people killed because they were Christian? Certainly — but not simply because they were Christian. Communists typically regarded religious organizations as a hinderance towards the creation of a worker’s paradise. Some religious groups also opposed the communists. Once again, we are generally looking at political issues, not a question of atheism.
Even if some people were killed simply because they followed a religion, it does not follow that they were killed in the name of atheism. Why? Because atheism is not inherently opposed to religion: it is possible to be both an atheist and religious and some religions are themselves atheistic. Atheism also isn’t a belief system or ideology which can, by itself, inspire people to do things — good or bad.
To understand this better, consider times in the past when religion has been involved with violence — the Inquisition would be good. How many people were killed during the Inquisition in the name of theism? None. Those doing the killing acted not because of theism, but rather because of Christian doctrines. The belief system is what inspired people to act (sometimes for good, sometimes for ill). The single belief of theism, however, did not.
Similarly, communism certainly inspired people to act and gave them motivations to do certain things, but atheism — which is the absence of a belief and not even a belief itself — did not. The assumption that people in Russia and China were killed merely on account of atheism is based upon two other myths: first, that atheism is itself some sort of philosophy or belief system which can motivate people, and second that atheism is somehow interchangeable with the actual belief system of communism. It also pretends that all the various elements of communist totalitarianism were irrelevant to what happened — which is utter nonsense.
The aforementioned parallel explains why this response is not one which religious theists can use to deny their religion’s responsibility for violence in the past. Atheism and theism may not themselves be sufficient to justify violence and murder (or good behavior, for that matter), but belief systems which incorporate them are more than sufficient. Communism (or at least certain forms of it) can be blamed for communist violence; Christianity (or at least certain forms of it) can also be blamed for Christian violence. As a belief system with specific doctrines that were openly held up as justifying or sanctioning violence, religion must be held responsible for the violence committed in its name.
Whether theism can be slightly more culpable than atheism is a matter of dispute. Not being any belief at all, atheism can’t motivate anyone in any direction to do anything. Theism is a belief, however, so at least the potential for some sort of motivation in some direction exists. It’s been argued, for example, that monotheism is inherently more prone to violence because of the way it tends to be exclusivist — unlike polytheism, which tends to be more tolerant of cultural and religious differences.
It’s difficult to say, though, how many of these problems are really inherent in the type of theism and how many are cultural products of the religious belief systems that incorporate them. Whatever culpability theism itself might have, it’s likely small enough to dismiss, allowing us to treat it and atheism as functionally equal in this context.
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
fartmasterflex wrote:
all of the communists you just mentioned were also atheists.
They also had hair, two eyes, belief in gravity, that the earth is round, they where from the same continent, yet you would assume that none of these cause the evil thing they did.
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
During the Communist regime in Soviet Russia the priests were killed simply for being religious. That is one example. The number of people killed in the name of religion, though, is far greater. However, isn’t it kind of unfair to compare how many people a belief has killed to what a lack of belief has killed?
So I gather that the point is instead of killing in the name of religion we should be killing in the name of Gplex?
I may be a cow but I’m not a sheep. Baaah.
i think the whole argument of finding different people who are christian/atheist/whatever and showing that they have done horrible things is retarded. i mean, look at yourselfs. apply the same logic to video games, and you find yourself agreeing with jack thompson.
Sean of the Living wrote:
During the Communist regime in Soviet Russia the priests were killed simply for being religious. That is one example. The number of people killed in the name of religion, though, is far greater. However, isn’t it kind of unfair to compare how many people a belief has killed to what a lack of belief has killed?
You think those priest wouldnt have lead their followers against someone who wants to replace religious dogma with his own? Anyone who stood up to the communist regime would have been killed.
No one has ever killed because of a lack of belief.
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
Itachi Uchiha wrote:
They kill in the name of FREEDOM
Oops... these below are atheist that doing genocide...
Thx to create this thread I added it then
DN Aidit (2.000.000)
Muso (more than 200.000)
Westerling (200.000)
Slobodan Milosevic(not known so far but greater than 250.000 of Muslims)
Mao Tze Dong(35.000.000 muslims) Chinese country(200 students at Thian Nan Men incidents)...
Lenin (20.000.000)
Stalin (20.000.000)
Ivan IV of Russia (1533 - 1547) he killed 1000 people per day... you can count it yourself...
Vlad Tepes
Pol Pot (2.000.000)
Leopold II of Belgium (15.000.000) people of congolese
Do I need to add more...???
I can add them...
And now hes trying to link communism to freedom, man you are the most ignorant person on the planet.
Edit: you want to talk about number... ok then.
* Muslim martyrs: 80 Million
* Christian martyrs: 70 Million
* Hindu martyrs: 20 Million
* Buddhist martyrs: 10 Million
* Jewish: 9 Million
* Ethnoreligious: 6 Million
* Sikh: 2 Million
* Baha’i: 1 Million
* Other religious martyrs: 5 Million
Well what a surprise...
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
kev360 wrote:
i think the whole argument of finding different people who are christian/atheist/whatever and showing that they have done horrible things is retarded. i mean, look at yourselfs. apply the same logic to video games, and you find yourself agreeing with jack thompson.
What about video games? That they are fun? That they should be rated just like movies?
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
kev360 wrote:
i think the whole argument of finding different people who are christian/atheist/whatever and showing that they have done horrible things is retarded. i mean, look at yourselfs. apply the same logic to video games, and you find yourself agreeing with jack thompson.
What about video games? That they are fun? That they should be rated just like movies?
well, there are some idiots out there who would like to think that if someone who plays video games ends up shooting up a school, then all video games are evil. this is essentially the same logic. its pretty damn shitty logic, really.
Dark Is The Moon wrote:
wait?is this about communists or atheists? im confused?
This is about people trying to link communist with atheist.
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
and, actually, as a note, for whatever reason i was thinking you were matt. this argument works a lot better for him because he’s really into video games and would know exactly what i’m talking about.
Sean of the Living wrote:
During the Communist regime in Soviet Russia the priests were killed simply for being religious. That is one example. The number of people killed in the name of religion, though, is far greater. However, isn’t it kind of unfair to compare how many people a belief has killed to what a lack of belief has killed?
You think those priest wouldnt have lead their followers against someone who wants to replace religious dogma with his own? Anyone who stood up to the communist regime would have been killed.
No one has ever killed because of a lack of belief.
No they didn’t, the Communists made no distinction they just killed all of the priests, I’m pretty sure even if some priests rebelled not all of them would’ve done so and rest would have just been killed for being religious which disagree with the Communist’s policu. What’s wrong with anyone fighting for their right to believe anyway?
MOO555 wrote:
So I gather that the point is instead of killing in the name of religion we should be killing in the name of Gplex?
I may be a cow but I’m not a sheep. Baaah.
Well why dont we just link the kkk to christianity then huh?
--- Theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena.
Itachi Uchiha wrote:
They kill in the name of FREEDOM
Oops... these below are atheist that doing genocide...
Thx to create this thread I added it then
DN Aidit (2.000.000)
Muso (more than 200.000)
Westerling (200.000)
Slobodan Milosevic(not known so far but greater than 250.000 of Muslims)
Mao Tze Dong(35.000.000 muslims) Chinese country(200 students at Thian Nan Men incidents)...
Lenin (20.000.000)
Stalin (20.000.000)
Ivan IV of Russia (1533 - 1547) he killed 1000 people per day... you can count it yourself...
Vlad Tepes
Pol Pot (2.000.000)
Leopold II of Belgium (15.000.000) people of congolese
Do I need to add more...???
I can add them...
And now hes trying to link communism to freedom, man you are the most ignorant person on the planet.
Edit: you want to talk about number... ok then.
* Muslim martyrs: 80 Million
* Christian martyrs: 70 Million
* Hindu martyrs: 20 Million
* Buddhist martyrs: 10 Million
* Jewish: 9 Million
* Ethnoreligious: 6 Million
* Sikh: 2 Million
* Baha’i: 1 Million
* Other religious martyrs: 5 Million
Well what a surprise...
Where did you get this...???
I want official proof...
---
“Great new ideas usually come from very small teams... don’t give up so easily." — John Kaster —
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