Goten and Trunks, when restricted by clothing were able to keep up with #18. As Super Saiyajins they would’ve blown away #18 in a single blast. The only opposition would be Piccolo, as he proved to be equal with #17 — and then trained for another year in the Room of Time and Spirit before the Cell games.
I’m still giving it to the kids though, because they’re two — and capable of going Super Saiyajin.
How is it PIS Tein still did it in both Manga and in the Anime he was even able to deflect a blast from Gotenk’s Buu away from Denda, Heck Krillin is able to hold his own against 18 and is seen sparring on the lookout with Goten?
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“I may not always agree with your opinion but i would fight to the death for your right to keep it” - Voltair
I voted the All Star cause of Piccolo but when I think about I’m gonna go with Goten and Trunks. I mean Tien and Yamcha would be taken out real quickly and then Goten and Trunks could gang up on Piccolo and win. And Tien deflecting a blast meat for Dende isn’t that impressive.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
How is it PIS Tein still did it in both Manga and in the Anime he was even able to deflect a blast from Gotenk’s Buu away from Denda, Heck Krillin is able to hold his own against 18 and is seen sparring on the lookout with Goten?
It’s PIS because his consistent showings show that he’s not that strong and there’s no way his Tri Beam multiplier can be more than the Super Saiyan multiplier. It was just a plothole.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
How is it PIS Tein still did it in both Manga and in the Anime he was even able to deflect a blast from Gotenk’s Buu away from Denda, Heck Krillin is able to hold his own against 18 and is seen sparring on the lookout with Goten?
It’s PIS because his consistent showings show that he’s not that strong and there’s no way his Tri Beam multiplier can be more than the Super Saiyan multiplier. It was just a plothole.
Well to put it bluntly if the manga dictate’s it as so...then it is...so i guess so Tein can and did stop second form Cell so he and Piccolo together could take on these shrimp’s who hold no candle to their father’s in all respect’s POWERFUL little blighters yes but skillful nah.
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“I may not always agree with your opinion but i would fight to the death for your right to keep it” - Voltair
Eternal Darkness wrote:
How is it PIS Tein still did it in both Manga and in the Anime he was even able to deflect a blast from Gotenk’s Buu away from Denda, Heck Krillin is able to hold his own against 18 and is seen sparring on the lookout with Goten?
It’s PIS because his consistent showings show that he’s not that strong and there’s no way his Tri Beam multiplier can be more than the Super Saiyan multiplier. It was just a plothole.
Well to put it bluntly if the manga dictate’s it as so...then it is...so i guess so Tein can and did stop second form Cell so he and Piccolo together could take on these shrimp’s who hold no candle to their father’s in all respect’s POWERFUL little blighters yes but skillful nah.
The manga dictates alot of things. We don’t take them all seriously. Same way we don’t take everything in comics seriously. It’s called PIS.
lol Piccolo was a little less powerful than Vegeta in the Cell Game’s, I’m possative he could deal with Kid Trunk’s SSJ and ur telling me Krillin Tein and Yamcha couldn’t take Goten with all their Tech’s and experience?
Solar Flare/Tri Beam/Do Don Beam/Multi Form/Distructo Disk/Spirit Ball/Wolf Fang Fist
__________________
“I may not always agree with your opinion but i would fight to the death for your right to keep it” - Voltair
Anyway you look at it, it’s like GT you can ignore it but it still happened.
Take it seriously? lol it happened PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) is basically saying u disagree with what u saw even though it accrued lol.
1. Tien’s consistent showings make him too weak to do any damage. That concludes that the scene is merely a plothole.
2. The attack did not even kill Semi Perfect Cell. And it almost killed Tien just through the effort. Look at Cell. He has no long-term damage on his body.
3. Kid Trunks and Goten are incredibly powerful. They may not be much compared to Goku, Gohan and Vegeta but they are absolute monsters.
4. Show me some proof that any human ever breaks past Base Goku on Namek. Some proof that they ever get stronger than a guy who went through 100x Gravity, got a massive zenkai [at least 333x fold] and then got another 50x increase by turning SSJ. Because that’s essentially what you’re putting these humans up against. Only these kids are even stronger.
Anyway you look at it, it’s like GT you can ignore it but it still happened.
Take it seriously? lol it happened PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) is basically saying u disagree with what u saw even though it accrued lol.
1. Tien’s consistent showings make him too weak to do any damage. That concludes that the scene is merely a plothole.
2. The attack did not even kill Semi Perfect Cell. And it almost killed Tien just through the effort. Look at Cell. He has no long-term damage on his body.
3. Kid Trunks and Goten are incredibly powerful. They may not be much compared to Goku, Gohan and Vegeta but they are absolute monsters.
4. Show me some proof that any human ever breaks past Base Goku on Namek. Some proof that they ever get stronger than a guy who went through 100x Gravity, got a massive zenkai [at least 333x fold] and then got another 50x increase by turning SSJ. Because that’s essentially what you’re putting these humans up against. Only these kids are even stronger.
Oh with pleasure do i meet this challenge thrown down before me with all such delighted glee,
First let’s work out the Children’s power’s so we can run a comparison.
First Fact:
Neither of them seem’s able to beat Android 18 even in SSJ together that is made abundantly clear
SSJ Vegeta could not either if you recall when they first meet but he is able to battle with her rather well by himself so i lay them beneath SSJ Vegeta’s first showing.
This would show that Piccolo who is made stronger than 17 after his HBTC would have no sweat dealing with Trunk’s or Goten in SSJ
So Piccolo>>>Goten and Trunk’s naturally
Next Tein was holding back Cell’s second stage, when his first form slapped Super Piccolo around like he was nothing
Piccolo = 17 who are both >>> Goten Trunks by some margin.
Thus Tein would not require the same ammount of effort against either of the two younger Saiyans who he would fare much better against do you see my point? plus we See Tein can hold his own against F. Trunk’s Base Form in the Bojack Movie witch i regard as stronger than Android 18 easily throw in Yamcha and Krillin and they are sure to conquer the two young hero’s
__________________
“I may not always agree with your opinion but i would fight to the death for your right to keep it” - Voltair
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Oh with pleasure do i meet this challenge thrown down before me with all such delighted glee,
First let’s work out the Children’s power’s so we can run a comparison.
First Fact:
Neither of them seem’s able to beat Android 18 even in SSJ together that is made abundantly clear
Disqualification =/= loss. At least not what a man’s loss is considered.
She was scared of dying when Goten and Trunks fired off a suppressed ki blast. They would’ve massacred her.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
SSJ Vegeta could not either if you recall when they first meet but he is able to battle with her rather well by himself so i lay them beneath SSJ Vegeta’s first showing.
And this is relevant how?
Eternal Darkness wrote:
This would show that Piccolo who is made stronger than 17 after his HBTC would have no sweat dealing with Trunk’s or Goten in SSJ
And yet he was to be taken aback by the force of their aura when Goten and Trunks transformed to SSJ on Kami’s lookout whereas base Goku was calm and collected. This suggests that base Goku > Piccolo and SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks > Piccolo.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
So Piccolo>>>Goten and Trunk’s naturally
Incorrect.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Next Tein was holding back Cell’s second stage, when his first form slapped Super Piccolo around like he was nothing
Holding back without doing any significant damage.
Holding back while exerting an immense amount of effort.
Holding back while being influenced by jobbing aura and PIS.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Piccolo = 17 who are both >>> Goten Trunks by some margin.
Actually, Piccolo is likely around Perfect Cell’s most suppressed form but that’s for another argument.
And you’re wrong anyway.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Thus Tein would not require the same ammount of effort against either of the two younger Saiyans who he would fare much better against do you see my point? plus we See Tein can hold his own against F. Trunk’s Base Form in the Bojack Movie witch i regard as stronger than Android 18 easily throw in Yamcha and Krillin and they are sure to conquer the two young hero’s
Nice use of non-canon movie scenes to debate about canon material.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Oh with pleasure do i meet this challenge thrown down before me with all such delighted glee,
First let’s work out the Children’s power’s so we can run a comparison.
First Fact:
Neither of them seem’s able to beat Android 18 even in SSJ together that is made abundantly clear
Disqualification =/= loss. At least not what a man’s loss is considered.
She was scared of dying when Goten and Trunks fired off a suppressed ki blast. They would’ve massacred her.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
SSJ Vegeta could not either if you recall when they first meet but he is able to battle with her rather well by himself so i lay them beneath SSJ Vegeta’s first showing.
And this is relevant how?
Eternal Darkness wrote:
This would show that Piccolo who is made stronger than 17 after his HBTC would have no sweat dealing with Trunk’s or Goten in SSJ
And yet he was to be taken aback by the force of their aura when Goten and Trunks transformed to SSJ on Kami’s lookout whereas base Goku was calm and collected. This suggests that base Goku > Piccolo and SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks > Piccolo.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
So Piccolo>>>Goten and Trunk’s naturally
Incorrect.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Next Tein was holding back Cell’s second stage, when his first form slapped Super Piccolo around like he was nothing
Holding back without doing any significant damage.
Holding back while exerting an immense amount of effort.
Holding back while being influenced by jobbing aura and PIS.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Piccolo = 17 who are both >>> Goten Trunks by some margin.
Actually, Piccolo is likely around Perfect Cell’s most suppressed form but that’s for another argument.
And you’re wrong anyway.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Thus Tein would not require the same ammount of effort against either of the two younger Saiyans who he would fare much better against do you see my point? plus we See Tein can hold his own against F. Trunk’s Base Form in the Bojack Movie witch i regard as stronger than Android 18 easily throw in Yamcha and Krillin and they are sure to conquer the two young hero’s
Nice use of non-canon movie scenes to debate about canon material.
It’s relevant because he’s trying to say Goten + Trunks SSJ =/= SSJ Vegeta.
That second part doesn’t even make sense. You’re saying Piccolo < base Goku, and that SSJ Trunks + Goten = base Goku? I don’t think that adds up.
It technically is PIS; but Tien was supposed to be a distraction so that the Z-Fighters would get more time. A plot hole yes; but a clever way to move the story along, in a sense. Personally, I don’t think it is, but it depends on the way you look at it: If one thinks of it as a sacrifice for the Z-Fighers, it’s not PIS. If one finds him trying to actually fight 2nd-form Cell, then yes, it’s PIS/CIS.
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“Hmph...Nice to meet you, [Zero]...No...wait...I can’t even call you that, can I? Because I, am the REAL, [Zero]..."
“Ware wa Messiah nari! Hahahaha!" - Omega Zero
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Oh with pleasure do i meet this challenge thrown down before me with all such delighted glee,
First let’s work out the Children’s power’s so we can run a comparison.
First Fact:
Neither of them seem’s able to beat Android 18 even in SSJ together that is made abundantly clear
Disqualification =/= loss. At least not what a man’s loss is considered.
She was scared of dying when Goten and Trunks fired off a suppressed ki blast. They would’ve massacred her.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
SSJ Vegeta could not either if you recall when they first meet but he is able to battle with her rather well by himself so i lay them beneath SSJ Vegeta’s first showing.
And this is relevant how?
Eternal Darkness wrote:
This would show that Piccolo who is made stronger than 17 after his HBTC would have no sweat dealing with Trunk’s or Goten in SSJ
And yet he was to be taken aback by the force of their aura when Goten and Trunks transformed to SSJ on Kami’s lookout whereas base Goku was calm and collected. This suggests that base Goku > Piccolo and SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks > Piccolo.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
So Piccolo>>>Goten and Trunk’s naturally
Incorrect.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Next Tein was holding back Cell’s second stage, when his first form slapped Super Piccolo around like he was nothing
Holding back without doing any significant damage.
Holding back while exerting an immense amount of effort.
Holding back while being influenced by jobbing aura and PIS.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Piccolo = 17 who are both >>> Goten Trunks by some margin.
Actually, Piccolo is likely around Perfect Cell’s most suppressed form but that’s for another argument.
And you’re wrong anyway.
Eternal Darkness wrote:
Thus Tein would not require the same ammount of effort against either of the two younger Saiyans who he would fare much better against do you see my point? plus we See Tein can hold his own against F. Trunk’s Base Form in the Bojack Movie witch i regard as stronger than Android 18 easily throw in Yamcha and Krillin and they are sure to conquer the two young hero’s
Nice use of non-canon movie scenes to debate about canon material.
OMG are you mad man? i really would not believe this mockery of DBZ that lay’s before my eye’s if it was not before me, it hurt’s to actually read some of what you have written and to know that you truly do believe in it, i don’t even think it’s actually worth response it’s that bad in places, however ill be polite and refrain from insult’s or mockery and try to explain it in a fashion i think we can both agree upon ok.
Because here is what really happened, sorry to ruin any delusion’s but you have forced my hand i must open your eye’s to the truth it would seem and so i must give you undeniable proof.
I was actually being so very kind and generous by saying Goten and Trunks were as powerful as Vegeta SSJ Android sagas showed to be simply by the fact Vegeta could handle up to 450 g in his base form when young Trunk’s was what struggling in 150 g at best? and he could barely walk as i recall without going SSJ, so no they are both far beneath even Vegeta’s power who was beaten badly by 18 as i recall, So were you got that they would have decimated her is beyond me.
(And that is putting it politely as Vegeta was handling that kind of gravity without SSJ and well before the three year’s were up might i add)
Now that should be a clear indication they are not stronger than Android 18 i believe?
Now that make’s Piccolo far stronger than either of them in all fairness even before entering the HBTC, were he left a little weaker than Vegeta was in the Cell Game’s.
on a chart,
Piccolo was = 17>18>Vegeta SSJ>Goten Trunk’s SSJ
Piccolo became>Second Stage Cell>16>17>18>Goten and Trunk’s SSJ
So thus i am once again correct you see Goten and Trunk’s were far beneath the Namek Piccolo logically and rightly so, but let’s just say for argument’s sake Trunk’s is giving him a gd go do you seriously believe Goten is that superior to Tein Yamcha and Krillin? and answering that belive he could take on all three at once at their best i mean out smarting him WONT be hard and with a simple solar Flare and adding a Spirit Ball Tri Beam Distructo Disk wammy to the mix = game over for the mini Goku
The Kid’s lose major style in this fight Piccolo is just overkill realistically he is to powerful and too well trained.
__________________
“I may not always agree with your opinion but i would fight to the death for your right to keep it” - Voltair
Last edited 25 Apr 2009 03:46 am by Eternal Darkness
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