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Terra(FFVI) vs Zidane(FFIX) vs Cloud(FFVII) vs Squall(FFVIII)

[Reply] #1
04-07-2011 05:57 PM
Rectifier
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Free for all.

Magics allowed.

Who is the last one standing?

[Reply] #2
04-07-2011 06:17 PM
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Well, theoretically Zidane could tank anything Squall or Terra could dish out, considering he has city-level durability.

However so does Cloud.....and his slashes harm people with that kind of durability(Cloud tanked a full-power Tremor flare, Chaos tanked an Omega Ray powered by 8 mako reactors, Sephiroth being stronger than both and Cloud keeping up with his slashes). Not to mention this is supported by Seph cutting the sister Ray in CC, which was made to withstand the blast of a city-buster+. Or he can just soul-wipe for the win.

However Terra is special because her magic is very evolved.

I say It gets to Terra and Cloud, where they tie.

While Cloud is physically the strongest hero in the series, Terra is magically the strongest in the series. Does that make any sense?


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Edited 04-07-2011 07:54 PM by nietsnefloW
[Reply] #3
04-07-2011 08:45 PM
FFfan
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I’d say It’s between Squall and Zidane, but Zidane wins because of the durability above poster mentioned.

[Reply] #4
04-07-2011 08:56 PM
Requiem
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Cloud speedblitzes.

[Reply] #5
04-07-2011 08:59 PM
wep
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Dissidia Squall solos.

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04-07-2011 09:02 PM
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wep wrote: Dissidia Squall solos.



O rly?

Let me introduce you to Dissidia 012 Cloud.





Cloud made fucking Chaos take a seat all battered up before he unleashed his full-power.

So Squall solos?


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[Reply] #7
04-07-2011 09:05 PM
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Cloud should have this if he gets his materia he can cancel out Terra’s magic. If not I don’t see her hitting him with any overly powerful spell


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[Reply] #8
04-07-2011 09:22 PM
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Don’t see Terra getting past his City-level durability.

Plus he can casually cut most spells and shit.

Also doubt Terra can survive a fullpower slash from Cloud which were matching Sephiroth’s, meaning they were strong enough to hurt people with City-busting durabil.


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[Reply] #9
04-07-2011 10:15 PM
rehdog
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You talking about the Megaflare and Omega Ray feats?

I agree and from what i knoe cloud is faster, dodging bullets meters away and all.

[Reply] #10
04-07-2011 10:17 PM
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The Phantom Stranger
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Terra outguns them all, Cloud outspeed’s them all, Squall displays a look of utter indifference, and Zidane literally sits down and laughs, as non of the above could ever actually harm him. He also might ignore the others and attempt to woo Terra.


Wolfenstein wrote:



Cloud made fucking Chaos take a seat all battered up before he unleashed his full-power.

So Squall solos?



lol Chaos shows literally no signs of exertion or being “battered up”, he sits down in a look of boredom then flicks Cloud away instantly. Also if you’ve played Dissidia, you know this is far from Chaos' full power. Though I’ve a fleeting feeling you were joking with that.


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[Reply] #11
04-07-2011 10:25 PM
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Well yea, was originally joking(with the ORLY, and squall solos, so on..) since dissidia is un-canon.....

But Cloud does force Chaos back in combat, he’s sitting in his throne looking downwards after they finish combat, at the start of the first video, Cloud even looks surprised to see him talking, as he thought he had won.

Of course, he’s not using the fullness of his power, since his next blast even trembles the place they’re at and so on.

And what do you mean he isn’t at full-power? He was obviously holding back, but I don’t recall him getting stronger in Dissidia, unless you are talking about Feral Chaos.

Edit:

Also, I think Cloud can harm Zidane, his slashes hurt people with city-durability.

Plus, he can always attack his soul with an Omnislash, and Zidane can’t defend against that.


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Edited 04-07-2011 10:38 PM by nietsnefloW
[Reply] #12
04-07-2011 10:48 PM
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Wolfenstein wrote: Well yea, was originally joking(with the ORLY, and squall solos, so on..) since dissidia is un-canon.....

But Cloud does force Chaos back in combat, he’s sitting in his throne looking downwards after they finish combat, at the start of the first video, Cloud even looks surprised to see him talking, as he thought he had won.

Of course, he’s not using the fullness of his power, since his next blast even trembles the place they’re at and so on.

And what do you mean he isn’t at full-power? He was obviously holding back, but I don’t recall him getting stronger in Dissidia, unless you are talking about Feral Chaos.

Edit:

Also, I think Cloud can harm Zidane, his slashes hurt people with city-durability.

Plus, he can always attack his soul with an Omnislash, and Zidane can’t defend against that.



Ahh I C, well thats good. Also I’m thoroughly digging the Snape avi/sig set.

TBH Cloud didn’t really force Chaos to do anything, he drew his weapon, and Chaos humored him, if anything he was trolling. I’m just making sure that everyone here knows that Cloud had/has literally no chance against the God of Discord. And Chaos at the end of the 13th war displayed his full power after killing Cosmos, his degradation into Feral Chaos after that could be also considered his most powerful form, as his strength was derived from Shinryu’s power.

For all this Soul business everyone seems to love using with Cloud, someone is going to have to provide some non PIS-slash proof that isn’t limited to Sephiroth. As that’s literally the only character the attack seems to be used/effective on.


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- Albert Einstein

Edited 04-07-2011 10:49 PM by The Phantom Stranger
[Reply] #13
04-07-2011 10:56 PM
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The Phantom Stranger wrote: Ahh I C, well thats good. Also I’m thoroughly digging the Snape avi/sig set.



Thanks bro.


The Phantom Stranger wrote: TBH Cloud didn’t really force Chaos to do anything, he drew his weapon, and Chaos humored him, if anything he was trolling. I’m just making sure that everyone here knows that Cloud had/has literally no chance against the God of Discord. And Chaos at the end of the 13th war displayed his full power after killing Cosmos, his degradation into Feral Chaos after that could be also considered his most powerful form, as his strength was derived from Shinryu’s power.



Well of course I agree Cloud had no chance of killing Chaos, he’s the fucking God of Discord in that game.

Yea, Chaos was trolling/testing him, wanting to see where his power caped. After he was defeated with the certain amount of power it took for him to test the extent of Cloud’s strenght, he unleashed the “full presence of chaos” and woot Cloud died.

Was just mentioning that because, to me at least, that was a pretty good and badass feat.


The Phantom Stranger wrote: For all this Soul business everyone seems to love using with Cloud, someone is going to have to provide some non PIS-slash proof that isn’t limited to Sephiroth. As that’s literally the only character the attack seems to be used/effective on.



Sure thing.

“Limit Breaks

When your spirit energy rises to its ultimate limit, for a short while it aligns with and emits from your body. Furthermore, Zack is unusual in that he can copy Limit Breaks, such as taking Aerith’s “Healing Wind” Limit Break from FFVII and turning it into his Limit Break “Healing Wave”. In the same way, Cloud takes his Limit Break “Meteor Rain” from the original Limit Break Zack created based on him called “Meteor Shot”." - http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/284/crisis-core-complete-guide-keyword-collection/

“When the limit is reached, his sword is imbued with fighting spirit from the heart for just a moment.” - http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/cloud.php

“Omnislash

Appears in name alone in a question when joining the Premium Fan Club. It is the strongest limit break belonging to Cloud in FFVII; a series of 15 consecutive highly charged sword strikes. In the final stages of the Jenova War, Cloud used this attack to finish off Sephiroth. In AC he also used the same attack to finish off Sephiroth, but the one used there is called “Omnislash Ver.5″, and is an evolved form of the aforementioned attack.” - http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/284/crisis-core-complete-guide-keyword-collection/

Cloud’s Omnislash are slashes with highly charged spiritual energy. Meaning a slash from the Omni is not just a physical attack, but a spiritual one as well. It means not only does it amp the damage, but it also soulwipes, hits intangibles, bypasses regen. In summary, it acts in both the spiritual plane and the physical.

The OmniV6, an evolved form of the attack, completely ignores the physical resistances and goes directly for the spirit as seen here:



He completely phases through his opponent damaging directly the spirit and not having to bother with the physcial aspect of the original omnislash, even though that attack still also strikes with spiritual energy infused blade, meaning if the omnislash cuts you, it’s hurting your spirit matter as well.


Edit:

Also, just to clarify, i do believe Cloud can physicaly hurt him with slashes being Zidane of city-level durabil.

Why? Well mainly because of three feats:

- Cloud tanking Bahamut Sin’s megaflare, and then matching Sephiroth’s slashes, which are able to hurt him. Hence, his slashes > city-busters.

- Chaos Vincent tanking the Omega Ray powered by 8 mako reactors. Definitely a city+ durability feat.

And Cloud was keeping up with Sephiroth’s sword slashes, considering Base Weiss sword slashes could hurt Chaos, and Sephiroth is far above him.

Also, i know this is coming, but im just going to throw out there that the creators have said Cloud > Chaos, and his body would be geneticaly superior to Chaos’s too, considering he received the most pure and refined S-cells.

- Sephiroth cutting the Sister Ray, which was made to resist the energy and pressure of a city-buster in it’s cannon. Which CC Seph effortlesly cut, and Cloud, again, kept up with AC Seph.

Summing up these feats would indeed make Cloud’s slashes > city-busting attacks. Of course not everyone can see these feats from only one point of view. And this is just is just a short outline of them. I will explain them better with vids in my next post.

Let me know with what you disagree here so we can try and reach some middle grounds.


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Edited 04-07-2011 11:24 PM by nietsnefloW
[Reply] #14
04-07-2011 11:59 PM
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Wolfenstein wrote: *Lotsa stuff about Omnislash/Limit Breaks



Alright concerning the PIS-Slash, you misunderstand me; I know FFVII, everything you’ve posted about it is already well within my knowledge. What I asked for was an instance of it’s use outside of Sephiroth/plot. You see I understand how FFVII and the abilities of it’s characters work, and I know full-well (as I’m sure you do) that Omnislash in and of itself has become a PIS move. It’s is for lack of better words, a Deus-Ex plot device. In order to apply it’s effects to everyday use, we must have an example of it being used outside of purely plot-related scenario’s.
So my request remains, give me an applicable example of it being used against someone other than Sephiroth for a non plot related purpose. I ask this because I know that there is no such example.

Wolfenstein wrote:
Also, just to clarify, i do believe Cloud can physicaly hurt him with slashes being Zidane of city-level durabil.

Why? Well mainly because of three feats:

- Cloud tanking Bahamut Sin’s megaflare, and then matching Sephiroth’s slashes, which are able to hurt him. Hence, his slashes > city-busters.

- Chaos Vincent tanking the Omega Ray powered by 8 mako reactors. Definitely a city+ durability feat.

And Cloud was keeping up with Sephiroth’s sword slashes, considering Base Weiss sword slashes could hurt Chaos, and Sephiroth is far above him.

Also, i know this is coming, but im just going to throw out there that the creators have said Cloud > Chaos, and his body would be geneticaly superior to Chaos’s too, considering he received the most pure and refined S-cells.

- Sephiroth cutting the Sister Ray, which was made to resist the energy and pressure of a city-buster in it’s cannon. Which CC Seph effortlesly cut, and Cloud, again, kept up with AC Seph.

Summing up these feats would indeed make Cloud’s slashes > city-busting attacks. Of course not everyone can see these feats from only one point of view. And this is just is just a short outline of them. I will explain them better with vids in my next post.

Let me know with what you disagree here so we can try and reach some middle grounds.



As Cloud is allowed a plethora of Materia and skills to chose from, he likely could hurt Zidane, I still don’t see anything that he has that could permanently put the Saiyan down though. Perhaps I should have worded my original post better, I do however have a few counterpoints for you.

- Bahamut never busted a city. As I recall the most he did was collapse a skyscraper. Unless we are equating summons, and FFVII Bahamut = FFIX Bahamut? As for Cloud vs. Seph, didn’t the creators state that Seph never exerted himself in that fight?

- Except the fact that no city was ever busted. The most damage a reactor has ever caused would be the destruction of Gongaga, a village of literally like 5 houses. You can estimate that the Omega Ray would have nuked the entirety of Midgar, but we really don’t have much to base that on as I recall.

- I don’t really care about DoC Chaos lulz

- Cutting the ray is a good strength/ability feat for Seph, especially considering he did it with shockwaves in that programmed simulation. This however, has little to do with Cloud or this battle in the grand scheme of things. Also an anti-tank bazooka can withstand the firing of a portable rocket, but can it tank such a blast? Of course not.

I simply see no way in which Cloud’s slashes are city+. Especially considering his slashes output far less damage on a regular basis.
Middle ground is always the safest in which to stand.


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“In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.“
- Albert Einstein

Edited 04-08-2011 12:02 AM by The Phantom Stranger
[Reply] #15
04-08-2011 12:21 AM
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The Phantom Stranger wrote: Alright concerning the PIS-Slash, you misunderstand me; I know FFVII, everything you’ve posted about it is already well within my knowledge. What I asked for was an instance of it’s use outside of Sephiroth/plot. You see I understand how FFVII and the abilities of it’s characters work, and I know full-well (as I’m sure you do) that Omnislash in and of itself has become a PIS move. It’s is for lack of better words, a Deus-Ex plot device. In order to apply it’s effects to everyday use, we must have an example of it being used outside of purely plot-related scenario’s.
So my request remains, give me an applicable example of it being used against someone other than Sephiroth for a non plot related purpose. I ask this because I know that there is no such example.



It’s true, there isn’t. He’s only ever used them in three separate instances against Sephiroth himself.

And Omnislash is not fully related to plot scenarios. The deescriptions given in the ultimania’s and things weren’t just done for plot convinience.

I honestly don’t see how this move being a plot device for Cloud defeating Sephiroth render It’s effects void......

I mean...It’s described and show to attack spiritually, I really don’t think the Omnislash being a plot device should render it useless. If I remove one of It’s traits do I have to remove them all? I mean It just sounds to me like you’re telling me the Omnislash has exclusive effects against Sephiroth.

The Phantom Stranger wrote: s Cloud is allowed a plethora of Materia and skills to chose from, he likely could hurt Zidane, I still don’t see anything that he has that could permanently put the Saiyan down though. Perhaps I should have worded my original post better, I do however have a few counterpoints for you.



Sure, let’s hear them.

The Phantom Stranger wrote: Bahamut never busted a city. As I recall the most he did was collapse a skyscraper. Unless we are equating summons, and FFVII Bahamut = FFIX Bahamut? As for Cloud vs. Seph, didn’t the creators state that Seph never exerted himself in that fight?



No, I was actually using powerscaling.



A megaflare little smaller than Tifa busted a skyscraper and made an explosion of that magnitude. Do note that explosion rose pretty high and far; Tifa was flying something like 6 stories high when this shot was taken.

Cloud tanked a megaflare that was, conservatively, 150x bigger than him.



You see that small black dot? Yea that’s Cloud.

Hence the attack would contain the concentrated energy of 150 skyscraper+ busters. Add in to the fact the blast range extends outwards when It explodes, and it could have easily busted a city or at least a town.

Not at all friend. I know that IGN translation said that, but I have read all the reunion files and this is the only quote pertaining the fight:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7857/119tee.jpg

As you can clearly read, the reunion files state Cloud and Sephiroth fought evenly for the duration of they’re battle as rivals. He wasn’t using his magic hax(then again neither was Cloud), but he was certainly not screwing around physically.

“Only the places where Sephiroth cut through were burning because those points were where all his power gathered before being scattered." - http://ffviinovels.lhyeung.net/ffacinfo/commentary.php

Note that burning buildings with slashes is a measure of power in FFVII. Producing light by clashing is most certainly the same, and those are measures only given to Cloud and Seph in AC.

Again, Sephiroth was even pushed back in a swordlock, used two hands, grunted and everything. He even lost his smirk.

He was most certainly not screwing around physically, i can assure you that.

The Phantom Stranger wrote: Except the fact that no city was ever busted. The most damage a reactor has ever caused would be the destruction of Gongaga, a village of literally like 5 houses. You can estimate that the Omega Ray would have nuked the entirety of Midgar, but we really don’t have much to base that on as I recall.



True, but again, I’m using powercaling here.

The thing is that the omega ray was powered by the same Mako reactors that powered the Sister Ray into city++. And they were directly infusing the blast with energy, evident by when Cloud cut one of the wires that connected the reactors to the Omega Weapon, the attack stopped. To put it simply, it was a stronger weapon, powered by the same source that made a weaker attack/weapon city+.

So yes, it was Omega launching an attack powered by an energy source that is City+. That is why I beleive in the power of the attack.

The Phantom Stranger wrote: I don’t really care about DoC Chaos lulz



Oh well then just for the virtue of posting information:

“When everyone wants to support Cloud, Vincent commands them to put their trust in Cloud’s hands. Not wanting to interfere, he believes that only Cloud has the power to destroy the curse from the past.” - http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/vincent.php

The Phantom Stranger wrote: Cutting the ray is a good strength/ability feat for Seph, especially considering he did it with shockwaves in that programmed simulation. This however, has little to do with Cloud or this battle in the grand scheme of things. Also an anti-tank bazooka can withstand the firing of a portable rocket, but can it tank such a blast? Of course not.



Well point is, you have to remember AC Cloud is far stronger than CC Seph.

The second point is valid, I’ll concede to that.

The Phantom Stranger wrote: simply see no way in which Cloud’s slashes city+. Especially considering his slashes output far less damage on a regular basis.



Well, do remember that Cloud was always nerfed during AC(except for the end) and that side-effects are rarely take into account.

Besides, he does show that kind of power, because he hurts people with that durability IMO.

And well, do consider that the first unadultered slash we see him throw in DoC is when he cuts the mako tube connecting the Omega Weapon to the reactors, and he does this with only a single sword and rampart energy flowing through it.

I beleive that, his fullpower slashes(as in the ones he used against Seph) are at that level due to him matching(and at time overpowering) Sephiroth’s, and considering the kind of attacks people at his level have tanked, I do beleive he has city+ power, or at least town power in his slashes.

I mean don’t get me wrong, I simply think the kind of attacks people at the top tier of FFVII tank are far beyond skyscraper or multi block busting.

In fact, I’d like to know where you stand in this matter, how powerful do you think those attacks were, and how strong is a slash from Cloud is he can hurt people with that durability?


Those attacks in my opnion, easily reach city-level, but of course we can’t always agree on issues of powerscaling.


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Edited 04-09-2011 03:34 AM by nietsnefloW
[Reply] #16
04-08-2011 12:23 AM
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Cloud would speedblitz Terra; if not, I guess it’s a win for Terra. The others shouldn’t even be here.

[Reply] #17
04-08-2011 12:28 AM
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Beelzebub wrote: Cloud would speedblitz Terra; if not, I guess it’s a win for Terra. The others shouldn’t even be here.



Well i seriously doubt Terra can scratch Cloud. He’s tanked fullpowered Tremor Flare from Bahamut SIN, and his weaker friend, Vincent, tanked an Omega Ray powered by 8 mako reactors.

He should tank her hits just fine with durability + his barriers.

And i certainly don’t think Terra can tank his slashes and resist his class 100+ strenght with her own barriers and durability.


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Edited 04-08-2011 12:29 AM by nietsnefloW
[Reply] #18
04-08-2011 12:31 AM
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I know, but her magic’s an issue. Cloud could definitely speedblitz, but if for some reason he does, Terra may win. (I worded my previous post incorrectly.)

Incidentally: you’re right.

Edited 04-08-2011 12:34 AM by Eric Kripke
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04-08-2011 12:36 AM
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Beelzebub wrote: I know, but her magic’s an issue. Cloud could definitely speedblitz, but if for some reason he does, Terra may win. (I worded my previous post incorrectly.)

Incidentally: you’re right.



Definitely. Terra is the most adept mage of the protagonists.


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[Reply] #20
04-08-2011 01:16 PM
SeeDMaster
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Squall solos effortlessly.

He simply busts a nearby galaxy, killing all the others.

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